Pumps, GPH and Pressure Filters oh my...


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Hi everyone, first post...

I've always had great luck with forums when I have questions, however I have posted this same line of questions to laguna support to help me figure out what I need to do...

Here goes...

long story short:
I've had an pump that for a while now I thought it was broken, turns out it just needed a little cleaning, but since then I replaced it with a power jet 1600. which might have been a little undersized when taking in consideration the head height of the waterfall and the flow at the top was significantly less than I anticipated. So I wanted to know what was the GPH rating on the the old pressure flo 10000 (WG10000). Logic would dictate that would be 10000 gph, but to me that sounds a little unreasonable that I had a pump that strong before I changed to the 1600, anyhow, I can't seem to find any documentation or flow chart for this particular model published... I was hoping you can help me out so I can figure out what the flow at the head height should be. I also have a little giant pump that's documented to do 3500GPH at 10' head height... But I think that's a little much for my application... I have ~35ft of hose and about 2 90 degree bends and the waterfall stands about 5ft over the water line. Doing a bucket test, I managed to fill a 2gal bucket in 9 seconds, if my math is correct, that's 800 gph, the total pond volume should fall between 1600-1800gal. I've also recently purchased a pressure flo 2000 filter and read in the manual that the water pressure shouldn't exceed 5.8psi... not sure how I can calculate that... Is there a way I can tell that I don't exceed this pressure? I'm using 1.5" ID tubing... Any help figuring all this out would be appreciated... Thanks,


short story long:
I've inherited a pond when I bought this house with 4 large koi's and many smaller gold fish's just over 5 years ago.. Having 0 pond experience figured how hard could it be..., A few years gone by and we had one very bad winter where I just couldn't keep the snow off the top of the pond (this is before I learned about the floating heating element) and my 4 large koi's died... Ever since then, its been downhill...

The water turned extremely sludgy, algae is out of control, the undergound tubing sprung a leak and I was loosing water... So I got the shovel out, moved some dirt replaced the tubing and redesigned the waterfall (it was too close to an apple tree anyways), then my pump died (or at least so I thought until last week when I randomly tried it again and it worked), since I thought it died, I got a new pump, a Laguna Power jet 1600... the pressure wasn't the greatest, but it got the job done... that's when I learned about head height... and also noticed my UV filter wasn't working... When I cracked that open I had a broken bulb, so I replaced it, but still doesn't seem to be working...

So I bit the bullet and bought a pressure flo 2000 pressure filter/UV light to replace my foam pad oasis biosys gravity filter. Also picked up a used skimmer box that came with a Little Giant WPG-96-WP pump (I was simply using a bottom feeding pump earlier)... After I figured out my head height to be between 9-10ft (35ft of tubing, 2 90 degree bends and ~5ft above water line) according the flow chart of the little giant, it would roughly be 3500gph for 10' head. I think its a little much since I believe for an ~1800gal pond I should be aiming for ~900gph flow rate (correct me if I'm wrong). This is when I tried that old Laguna pump I original had (model WG10000, can't find any documentation on it). I did a bucket test with that and managed to fill an 2gal bucket in 9 seconds, which is roughly 800gph if my math is correct. The manual for the pressure flo 2000 filtersays that the water pressure shouldn't exceed 5.8psi... I have no idea how to calculate that...

Anyhow, thoughts on all this? I know its a learning curve... I've learned a lot already, but I know I have much more to learn... and I kind of enjoy this hobby now that I understand it a bit better...

Thanks,
 
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I was going to build a little diffuser with some hose and T ABS fitting, make it probably about 1ft wide... Right now, its jus the diameter of the oase filter which I'll be changing up with the pressureflo,... The width of the waterfall/stream kind of varies a bit... I was working a little bit on it earlier this spring to make it a little narrower to help with the flow with the weak powerjet 1600 pump... I should have more flow now using the older laguna WG10000 pump.

The recommended pump for the pressureflo 2000 is the maxflo 960, which I think would be way under powered... since the 1600 was weak enough to begin with...
 
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So I got a response from Laguna, and just as I thought. not very helpful, they simply said to install the pump that the manual says to install... which is the maxflo 960...

I did get an answer for the Powerjet 10000, it has a GPH of 2900.

Also the pressure flow 2000 filter can handle up to 1450 GPH,

So,.. I think the Powerjet 1600 is 1600 gph (again, no documentation), so I think if I clean it up and restore the performance after including the head height I should be good... right?
 
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laguna powerjet 10000 is 2905GPH (10000Lph)
http://www.petproductnews.com/September-2006/Rolf-C.-Hagen-USA-Corp.-Laguna-PowerJet-10000/

this is laguna pj 11000 and it has 11000Lph and head height 4m
https://www.fishkeeper.co.uk/product/laguna-powerjet-fountainwaterfall-pump-kit

i think the one u have bought laguna1600 is half of it only around 5000LPH as this one is laguna 1350 @5000lph
http://www.lagunaponds.com/en_us/laguna-powerjet-1350-fountain-waterfall-pump-kit-pt8208/

so 5000lph is reduced to 3400lph (900gph) after long tubing and height of 5ft waterfall torture on the pump lol jk , u need atleast 10000lph total, its confusing keep in mind the difference of Liters and galons , some times some models are on L or G , dont just read number , read the flow rate and see if its Gallons or litters
 
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wonderful... thanks I was looking all over the place for some documentation...

Laguna doesn't keep things nice and handy for their legacy products :) Maybe on purpose so we keep buying new...

Anyhow, I think my PowerJet 1600 should provide enough pressure, without overpressurizing the pressureflo 2000, problem is. I don't think its enough for a full flow for the my waterfall... I was thinking about supplementing it with the Laguna WG10000 pump and feeding it straight into the waterfall bypassing the filter... just need to run another set of hose... is it ok to use 2 pumps in skimmer? or should I keep one pump bottom fed? while the other sits in the skimmer...

I do kind of like the idea to have the moving on top to keep the mosquito breeding site limited.
 

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is it ok to use 2 pumps in skimmer? or should I keep one pump bottom fed? while the other sits in the skimmer...

This depends on the maximum flow rate for the skimmer which is typically determined by the width of the skimmer weir.
  • For ponds using a pump of 500 gph to 1,800 gph a 6" weir is recommended.
  • For ponds using pumps that pump between 1,800 and 3,000 gph you should use an 8.5" weir.
 
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wonderful... thanks I was looking all over the place for some documentation...

Laguna doesn't keep things nice and handy for their legacy products :) Maybe on purpose so we keep buying new...

Anyhow, I think my PowerJet 1600 should provide enough pressure, without overpressurizing the pressureflo 2000, problem is. I don't think its enough for a full flow for the my waterfall... I was thinking about supplementing it with the Laguna WG10000 pump and feeding it straight into the waterfall bypassing the filter... just need to run another set of hose... is it ok to use 2 pumps in skimmer? or should I keep one pump bottom fed? while the other sits in the skimmer...

I do kind of like the idea to have the moving on top to keep the mosquito breeding site limited.
what i would have done is setup separate mechanical prefilter or filtration in the waterfall to use this 10000 flow too whenever u turn it on . it might happen u will need extra filtration for ur 4 large koi plus goldfishes . so setup some thing to supplement the smaller setup.
yes its good idea to use it at the day time when u need and save energy at night .
do u have filter media in the waterfall ? if u have it then both the pumps will be able to function using that media. if u turn one off , the other will keep the flow in the media . i have done similar with 2 pumps .
 
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Thanks everyone for your input! As usual, forums provided more support than the manufacturers themselves... All they told me to do was buy another pump.

Anyhow, here's what I did, and I think I found a good solution for this dilemma,

I'm simply using the Laguna WG10000 pump (bottom fed for now, still working on the skimmer) and used a Y splitter near the filter, the result was I managed to fill a 2gal pail in 13-14 seconds (500-600gph if my math is correct)... ideally I think that number should be closer to 800-900gph for a 1800gal pond.
20170730_184458.jpg
70606-a9fe9b25dc9e9bf65850f33a35d0f9a6.jpg

So, next step is i'm in the process of installing some ball valves so I can adjust the pressure going to the filter from the water that that's being bypassed. I know I probably only need one ball valve, but figured I may need to do the opposite at one point and restrict water going to filter and have more water being bypassed... I don't know... what do you guys think?
20170730_184422.jpg 20170730_185106.jpg
 

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Is it safe to use ABS/PVC glue for pond use? Or should I just use some pond friendly silicone to make the pipe connections?
 
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Thanks everyone for your input! As usual, forums provided more support than the manufacturers themselves... All they told me to do was buy another pump.

Anyhow, here's what I did, and I think I found a good solution for this dilemma,

I'm simply using the Laguna WG10000 pump (bottom fed for now, still working on the skimmer) and used a Y splitter near the filter, the result was I managed to fill a 2gal pail in 13-14 seconds (500-600gph if my math is correct)... ideally I think that number should be closer to 800-900gph for a 1800gal pond.
View attachment 102713
70606-a9fe9b25dc9e9bf65850f33a35d0f9a6.jpg

So, next step is i'm in the process of installing some ball valves so I can adjust the pressure going to the filter from the water that that's being bypassed. I know I probably only need one ball valve, but figured I may need to do the opposite at one point and restrict water going to filter and have more water being bypassed... I don't know... what do you guys think?
View attachment 102712 View attachment 102716
great idea looks good , so u have divided it half in filter half waterfall?
i love ur stream fall actualy it must be working like filter it self , but i see some liner exposed , why ur pond water level is low ?
 
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thanks I designed it myself, the orginal stream the previous owner left me was too close to an apple tree and was annoying to get to,... So, both hoses are being used in the waterfall, but one bypasses the filter.... I was thinking about making a little diffuser to even out the flow, but from deck, you won't be able to tell the difference. I'd like to have a bit more pressure diverted to the filter, hence the ball valve idea...

The water is low because I'm still working on a skimmer install and will be re-running the hose in order to shorten the hose length by a few feet...

here's what the top of falls looks like...
20170730_184555.jpg
 
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great idea looks good , so u have divided it half in filter half waterfall?
i love ur stream fall actualy it must be working like filter it self , but i see some liner exposed , why ur pond water level is low ?

Here's a video of the complete pond and flow... Still work in progress obviously :) I've also found a draw back to the Y splitter... The backwash functionality of the pressureflo is not quite as effective... I'll have to install those ball valves so I can completely shutoff the bypass hose before I can effectively backwash it... Just trying to find a good way to mount it to the fence...

 
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sissy

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You need more water movement in the pond .are those mosquito's or gnats flying around .
 

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