Quarantining Fish and a Cycled Pond Views?

[Jason]

Hello, im back with some curious questions to why

A: People feel the need to wait a month or two for their pond to "Cycle" or "Establish" itself before adding fish and

B: Why people feel the need to put every fish they buy or get in to a quarantine tank or tub for a month before putting them in their pond?

When I buy a Fish I put it in a clear container and inspect it from how it's swimming, How often it's gasping for oxygen, Physical appearance like Fungus growth, scars, etc. Just your basics and then set it in the bag in the pond for 15-20min until the temp is acclimate and let it free. I put my fish in my first pond the next day after I filled it and they are 1 year old goldfish now and are doing just fine, please share experiences and what you do to make sure your fish is suitable for your pond before entering it, Thanks! rofile:

 

[Shdwdrgn]

Waiting several weeks for a new pond to cycle is due to the rapidly changing balance of any body of water when you first set it up. Plants are much more tolerant of these fluctuations, but feeder goldfish can generally tolerate it. While a pond is cycling, your nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia levels can easily spike in as little as an hour as all of the objects in the water affect the chemical composition of the water. I don't remember the exact order, but essentially one level will spike (nitrate or nitrite?), which then caused a chemical reaction that starts the next cycle, which then starts the next cycle... In an enclosed space like an aquarium, you can actually smell the difference in the water from day to day.

One thing you can do to help speed along this process is to use filter media or rocks and plants from an established pond. The bacteria present on these items are exactly what you need in the new pond to create the chemical balance. I wouldn't recommend the bottles of starter bacteria from the stores... some brands may help, but most just make things worse and then it takes even longer for the pond to cycle.

As for quarantining new fish... that depends on how attached you are to your existing fish. A physical inspection of new fish does not tell you the whole story. As a prime example, some of our chain stores (which probably get their fish from the same suppliers) have an occasional problem with this pest known as the camelanus worm. They will build up in a fish's guts, eventually exploding out of the anus. The only physical sign is that the fish start looking malnourished and their colors fade. This particular worm can take up to 12 weeks to incubate in a fish before showing itself, and can infect both fish and snails. Even worse, it is nearly impossible to get rid of... The only cure we've found is soaking fish food (the fish have to ingest it directly) in a particular type of horse de-wormer, and feeding the fish this mixture for the next 8-12 weeks. And even then, we've still generally seen a 50% mortality rate in our aquariums.

Now imagine trying to treat an infected pond...

You need to make your own judgement about introducing new fish to your pond. Obviously with a new setup it won't hurt anything to drop your first few fish straight in the water, but as you get more fish, you become more cautious. From my own experience, I generally won't buy a fish where anyone else in the tank appears sick, unless that fish has some very special characteristics. (I've done this once, and I QT'ed the new fish for a month before introducing it to the pond.) I believe koi are going to be coming from a different supplier than your standard tetras and mollies, so I will typically put them straight in the pond, however I am a lot more cautious about introducing a comet or shubunkin that is likely to have come from a regular supplier. As I said, the choice is yours, just remember that the more fish you have, the more you stand to lose from a new fish infecting your pond.

 

[JBtheExplorer]

I've never quarantined a fish for more than a week. Luckily I've never had any sick ones. Its always good to buy from a source you are more familiar with too, at least, it makes me feel better that I have more confidence that my fish will be healthy.

 

[Dave 54]

Hey Jason see your suhubunkin post for the answer to the Quarentine question doing it the proper way means like us you end up with koi or goldfish that have lived half their lives with you.
Goldfish can and do live for 40 years koi at least 80, our two eldest are now 27 years of age,they are disease and parasite free just like the rest of our fish...
Can you say that of yours ???.....no because the truth is you cant answer that question for one of your ponds and perhaps not the other .
You have alott to learn about fish keeping buy a book called the interpet book of fish health from Amazon US it'll only cost you a few dollars but it'll save you a furtune in dead fish and the chemicals you need to remove parasites

rgrds

Dave

 

[Dave 54]

As to aclimatizing fish for 30 minutes not 20 how would you like it if I dropped you in an ice cold bath that should answer your question .
It can in some cases cause thermal shock

rgrds

Dave

 

[Litzi1964]

When I buy fish I try to take a good 15 to 20 mins to observe the tank. I watch their movements. Are some sluggish or erratic? Are any gasping at the surface? I look at their eyes, fins and scales. Are their eyes clear and bright? Are there wounds or missing scales? Do they seem interested in their surroundings and attentive? I then put them in a quarantine tank for 1 week as a precaution.

 

[Shdwdrgn]

Acclimating for only 20 minutes? That's just crazy talk! When I get a new fish, I let their bag sit in the water for 15-20 minutes, then I mix in a cup of pond water. Wait another 15 minutes, add another cup of water. I always take 60-90 minutes to acclimate a new fish to the pond water before ever releasing them.

 

[Dave 54]

Thirty minutes is athe acceptable imit for acclimatizing fish but its up to you if you take longer it shows caring for your charges our fish.

rgrds

Dave

 

[HTH]

How long to QT depends on how much you value the fish and the health of your pond. If you don't value either just dump em in knowing that a few gallons of bleach will fix everything.

I have been looking into the acclimatization thing. An Aquarium Fish Magazine article they gave a table with upper and lower limits between when it made sense to acclimate. If you are below the lower limit acclimatization is not needed. If you are above it will do more harm then good.



I do not know if we can use these numbers for goldfish but the idea that there is a range of limits where it makes sense should apply. The article is a good read. It talks about various ways to screw up some are not so obvious.

 

[JohnHuff]

A) When the pond is cycled, it means that it has beneficial bacteria in it and can handle the waste products produced by the fish. Fish are basically swimming in their own toilets. If the pond is cycled, the poo they excrete will be converted into less toxic products. If the pond is not cycled, they will literally be swimming in their own poo and will/can die.

Interesting thing is that beneficial bacteria only occur when there are waste products so some people use feeder fish to produce waste and cultivate the beneficial bacteria. You can also do fishless cycling by pouring ammonia into the pond.

B. I have never quarantined either my pond or my tanks. I acclimate my new fish by putting the bag into the pond/tank and then slowly adding pond/tank water into the bag. This acclimates the fish both temperature-wise and chemically. I don't do more than 20 mins because there is not a lot of oxygen in the bag and the fish don't like being in the bag that long. My old fish always welcome the new fish by sniffing around the bag.

 

[Dave 54]

Interesting Article HTH however we dont use the float and dip method when moving koi to a show vat, all pond water in the doubled up bags has to be ditched so on completion of the show the same thing happens in reverse.
With the Vat water ditched after the koi has been lifted out of its bag and placed back in the pond.
Many dont show but weve been showing our koi since the late 1980's with no losses.
A relly good way to take the water temperature of the bag is to use an infra red hand held thermometer like this:-



You place the thermometer on the skin of the bag after reading the pond temperature when the bag matches the water in the pond its time to release the fish

rgrds

Dave

 

[HTH]

There is another

Interesting Article HTH however we dont use the flot and dip method when moving koi to a show vat all pond water i the doubled up bags has to be ditched so on completion of the show the same thing happens in reverse.
With the Vat water ditched after the koi has been kufted out of its bag and placed back in the pond.
Many dont show but weve been showing our koi ince the late 1980's with no losses.

rgrds

Dave

I am glad you brought that up Dave. Does the pH drop in you koi bags during the trip or are the shows near enough that it is not an issue.

Not quite the same thing as small fish shipped for 3 or 4 days in the mail which is what I am looking at soon. So many variables when we talk about anything here. It is no wonder there is disagreement.

 

[Jason]

"One thing you can do to help speed along this process is to use filter media or rocks and plants from an established pond. The bacteria present on these items are exactly what you need in the new pond to create the chemical balance. I wouldn't recommend the bottles of starter bacteria from the stores... some brands may help, but most just make things worse and then it takes even longer for the pond to cycle."
I did this for the new pond and threw a bunch of rocks with lite algae and the water Lilly in there as well to help along with a 5 gallon bucket full of that pond water into the new one!

Dave: Holy cow, 80 years old! I understand that keeping fish for years you obviously become attached (I have already a little lol) and want to make sure nothing will shorten your relationship with them. I go and Buy a Fish and it takes me about 20 minutes to get home and the drop the fish in the pond with bag for 15 - 20 minutes, the water is the same as the pond in that time, I have tested it and understand your concern with the temperature but it only has maybe a cup of water in the bag and I understand that depending on the temp outside (Winter/Summer) that that process takes a little longer. One time I brought two BIG goldfish from my brothers 55 gallon tank, they were around 9-10'' and I had them in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid full of the aquarium water it was in, it took 1 HOUR for that water in the bucket to reach my ponds temperature lol!

I have never thought about adding little by little pond water either, that's a good idea! I will have to check that book out on amazon, but I also rely on you guys and gals (Experts) to help more then any book will (hence why I joined this community )

 

[Jason]

Interesting Article HTH however we dont use the float and dip method when moving koi to a show vat, all pond water in the doubled up bags has to be ditched so on completion of the show the same thing happens in reverse.
With the Vat water ditched after the koi has been lifted out of its bag and placed back in the pond.
Many dont show but weve been showing our koi since the late 1980's with no losses.
A relly good way to take the water temperature of the bag is to use an infra red hand held thermometer like this:-

tn1-infrared-thermometer.jpg

You place the thermometer on the skin of the bag after reading the pond temperature when the bag matches the water in the pond its time to release the fish

rgrds

Dave

Thats what I use a the infrared temp monitor! I had my water tested yesterday at petsmart (they are free) and The guy who always helps me knows a lot about ponds and has a koi pond himself, he said everything checked out good but my Ph was around 7.75 and needed to come down just a hair, but on here it looks like I will be just fine with a window of 7-8 alkalinity?

 

[HTH]

Yup Jason leave the pH alone. Nothing at all wrong with 7.8. (and yes that is my opinion)

They key is a steady pH.