Raised pond with window - Gold fish

[Fonne]

Hi


Is planning a raised garden pond with a windows, and would like to hear if my ideas are total off (My english is not the strongest, so hope it will work).


The design is made to work as a separation "wall" between out terrace and lawn, and the we will be able to look at it from both the kitchen and living room every dag.


It will be build around a welded stainless steel frame (Can get it welded at my work), with 15mm OSB/3 plates inside to distribute the load, and 60mm styrolit insulation inside the welded frame - Inside I will use a li. ner

The pond will hold around 1800 Gallon, and the window will be 2,4 Meter x 0,7 Meter (21,5mm thickness - Laminated)

- The box on the right will hold the filter with easy access, has just not added surface.

All from the red line and down will be underground, so the filterbox on the right will be at ground level, so the filter is planned to be below water level or as close to as possible.

The outside will be fibre cement cladding so it will have the same look to some other garden stuff the wife already loves.

Had planned a pump in the middle/center, and a skimmer will be connected to the extra port placed in one corner to create some flow in that end - The drawing is made with a bottom drain. Is looking at this large preasure filter with uv and bioballs.

Sicce Green Reset 100 + EKO Power 12 - Nikoi

Description Sicce Green Reset 100 + EKO Power 12 Sicce Green Reset 100 pressure filter is suitable for ponds with low visbezetting no Koi to 35,000 litres. If you have a pond has a high visbezetting and with little to no plants, the maximu

www.nikoi.nl

On of the main reasons to use a preassure filter is that I dont want a box that goes over the top of the pond (A design demand from the wife)

This is how I are thinking the flow in the pond will be (Not total to scale, but was th best way I could show it)

- View from the side

On the outlet I was planning to use a splitter so I can control the flow a bit more.

Does it look total wront or are there hope ? Would really like to hear if any here has experiences with gold fish and large preasure filter.

(My original plan was koi thats why I added the bottom drain, but the demends to the filter placement match better with gold fish)

 

[brokensword]

Hi


Is planning a raised garden pond with a windows, and would like to hear if my ideas are total off (My english is not the strongest, so hope it will work).


The design is made to work as a separation "wall" between out terrace and lawn, and the we will be able to look at it from both the kitchen and living room every dag.


It will be build around a welded stainless steel frame (Can get it welded at my work), with 15mm OSB/3 plates inside to distribute the load, and 60mm styrolit insulation inside the welded frame - Inside I will use a li. ner

The pond will hold around 1800 Gallon, and the window will be 2,4 Meter x 0,7 Meter (21,5mm thickness - Laminated)

- The box on the right will hold the filter with easy access, has just not added surface.

View attachment 147670

All from the red line and down will be underground, so the filterbox on the right will be at ground level, so the filter is planned to be below water level or as close to as possible.

The outside will be fibre cement cladding so it will have the same look to some other garden stuff the wife already loves.

Had planned a pump in the middle/center, and a skimmer will be connected to the extra port placed in one corner to create some flow in that end - The drawing is made with a bottom drain. Is looking at this large preasure filter with uv and bioballs.

Sicce Green Reset 100 + EKO Power 12 - Nikoi

Description Sicce Green Reset 100 + EKO Power 12 Sicce Green Reset 100 pressure filter is suitable for ponds with low visbezetting no Koi to 35,000 litres. If you have a pond has a high visbezetting and with little to no plants, the maximu

www.nikoi.nl

On of the main reasons to use a preassure filter is that I dont want a box that goes over the top of the pond (A design demand from the wife)

This is how I are thinking the flow in the pond will be (Not total to scale, but was th best way I could show it)

- View from the side

View attachment 147669

On the outlet I was planning to use a splitter so I can control the flow a bit more.

Does it look total wront or are there hope ? Would really like to hear if any here has experiences with gold fish and large preasure filter.

(My original plan was koi thats why I added the bottom drain, but the demends to the filter placement match better with gold fish)

Let's start with; typically, recommendation is ONE koi for the first 1000 gallons, and 250-500 for the next. So, I'd only put in 4ish koi in this pond.

Second, the drawing makes me think this is narrow; koi do better when they have room to turn and if you figure a koi can reach 30+ inches, well, you see where I'm going with this. Indeed, goldfish might be better or just control your urge to have many koi.

Just to mention, you don't need a bottom drain but of course, it can benefit. Without the bottom drain, routing of, installation of, cost of plumbing goes down, including worries about winterization (if you get snow/ice).

Is there any way/space near this proposed pond structure to include a bog filter instead of the pressure one? I'd recommend that if you can, which might alter some design params but you'd have a lot less maintenance (like almost zero) and imo, have a much better filter system. Seeing as to how you're going to have a 'filter' pit already built in, why not make it a bog pit instead? Would be larger for better effect but doesn't seem like you couldn't re-design if that's the way you wanted to go.

From your design specs, seems you have enough integrity to install the window but realize, there are risks with it. I don't see mention of a liner inside this steel clad box and I'm not sure if your cement board is going to do the job even with steel backing. There's where you need to be sure of your water pressure forces. My initial feeling is you're going to need better backing, but only because I don't see complete details re your pond walls, other than the frame and 'cement cladding' which to me means a 1" thick wall or usually, less. If you're depending on the cement to hold the water and not crack, I'd be worried. Most 'cement' ponds are 8" thick with reinforcement rods, often with wire between layers. Again, details might be missing here but the point is, making both an above ground pond using cement and esp including a window, makes this an engineering problem that has to be right from the get go.

It is QUITE possible you may even need some sort of brace from the other side of the window TO the window top frame to keep bowing from happening. Probably two.

Btw, very nice drawings; easy to understand.

oh, one last note; this will give you fits when LPS hits...

 

[j.w]

@Fonne

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome!

I don’t know anything about constructing this type of pond, but we will have someone pop up at least once a year or so with similar concerns. @brokensword has given some good advice. Yeah, I would go with goldfish rather than koi. Get some pretty Shubunkins and it will be as if you have miniature “koi.”

 

[Fonne]

Let's start with; typically, recommendation is ONE koi for the first 1000 gallons, and 250-500 for the next. So, I'd only put in 4ish koi in this pond.

Second, the drawing makes me think this is narrow; koi do better when they have room to turn and if you figure a koi can reach 30+ inches, well, you see where I'm going with this. Indeed, goldfish might be better or just control your urge to have many koi.

Sorry that I maybe dont made it clear, I DONT going to get koi fish in this pond - It was my original plan, but the size and demands to the filter system (+ money) made my change to go with gold fish only.

Just to mention, you don't need a bottom drain but of course, it can benefit. Without the bottom drain, routing of, installation of, cost of plumbing goes down, including worries about winterization (if you get snow/ice).

The bottom drain was made when I was thinking about getting Koi, but think I will be happy keeping it still with gold fish.

Is there any way/space near this proposed pond structure to include a bog filter instead of the pressure one? I'd recommend that if you can, which might alter some design params but you'd have a lot less maintenance (like almost zero) and imo, have a much better filter system. Seeing as to how you're going to have a 'filter' pit already built in, why not make it a bog pit instead? Would be larger for better effect but doesn't seem like you couldn't re-design if that's the way you wanted to go.

My garden shed is about 20 meter way, and its going to be a nightmare to dig the pipes into it.

First time I hear about bog pit, så need to look into it - All summer we will be sitting 2 meters from the pond, so noise from a filter / pump is also something I need to think about.

Was hoping that getting a "oversize" preasure filter like the one in my link would work, but has also been looking at large gravity filters like this one, could with with only a small parts off the filter box above the pond section.

Lotus Green Genie 48000 Filter (50w UVC): Gravity Filters: Pond Filters : Pondkeeper.co.uk

Lotus Green Genie 48000 Filter (50w UVC): Gravity Filters: Pond Filters : Pondkeeper.co.uk

www.pondkeeper.co.uk

Or maybe the ScreenMatic with UVC - Looks like a great filter to my small pond, but really dont like that many moving parts - Maybe I am wrong ?

BioTec ScreenMatic² 40000

Flow-through filters

www.oase.com

From your design specs, seems you have enough integrity to install the window but realize, there are risks with it. I don't see mention of a liner inside this steel clad box and I'm not sure if your cement board is going to do the job even with steel backing. There's where you need to be sure of your water pressure forces. My initial feeling is you're going to need better backing, but only because I don't see complete details re your pond walls, other than the frame and 'cement cladding' which to me means a 1" thick wall or usually, less. If you're depending on the cement to hold the water and not crack, I'd be worried. Most 'cement' ponds are 8" thick with reinforcement rods, often with wire between layers. Again, details might be missing here but the point is, making both an above ground pond using cement and esp including a window, makes this an engineering problem that has to be right from the get go.

I can think way faster than I can draw, so the 3D design it not up to date - The windows will be places in a stainless steel frame all around the edge to add strength, and will add some more support in the bottom of the frame where the water pressure is the highest.

Does you think the flow in the pond will work, or will I get many dead zones ?

Thanks for your help.

 

[brokensword]

Sorry that I maybe dont made it clear, I DONT going to get koi fish in this pond - It was my original plan, but the size and demands to the filter system (+ money) made my change to go with gold fish only.



The bottom drain was made when I was thinking about getting Koi, but think I will be happy keeping it still with gold fish.



My garden shed is about 20 meter way, and its going to be a nightmare to dig the pipes into it.

First time I hear about bog pit, så need to look into it - All summer we will be sitting 2 meters from the pond, so noise from a filter / pump is also something I need to think about.

Was hoping that getting a "oversize" preasure filter like the one in my link would work, but has also been looking at large gravity filters like this one, could with with only a small parts off the filter box above the pond section.

Lotus Green Genie 48000 Filter (50w UVC): Gravity Filters: Pond Filters : Pondkeeper.co.uk

Lotus Green Genie 48000 Filter (50w UVC): Gravity Filters: Pond Filters : Pondkeeper.co.uk

www.pondkeeper.co.uk

Or maybe the ScreenMatic with UVC - Looks like a great filter to my small pond, but really dont like that many moving parts - Maybe I am wrong ?

BioTec ScreenMatic² 40000

Flow-through filters

www.oase.com

I can think way faster than I can draw, so the 3D design it not up to date - The windows will be places in a stainless steel frame all around the edge to add strength, and will add some more support in the bottom of the frame where the water pressure is the highest.

View attachment 147678

Does you think the flow in the pond will work, or will I get many dead zones ?

Thanks for your help.

I think a bit of research into large aquariums or above ground ponds with windows, will help you in regard to if your design is sufficient. I think it is but I also have some reservations. Still not sure exactly what the sides will be made up (thickness, material, reinforcement, etc). You MAY not need a steel frame across the top of that glass--I'm not sure, I'm not a structural engineer, but I'd be leery just the same. What I can relate to you is this; my dad was a mason and had aquariums. He made them himself, 4" solid with reinforcement, all 200+ gallons. Your pond will be magnitudes larger. In his aquariums, he made them out of concrete, reinforced, and had angle iron frame much as you're using, ALL the way around the glass, which was inset to the concrete. His windows were 4' x 2', so half as long but about the same width as yours. Any water below grade is not a problem; it's everything above. As you noted, the push force of the water will be highest at ground level against that glass. This should be referenced to something another has built or run by an actual engineer. It's hard to fix once you start getting issues if you don't do this right. With an inground pond, you don't have any structural worries as the ground is a lot stronger then the water pushing against it.

Now, another issue I'm not sure you've considered; any glass/window in an above ground pond is going to need to be cleaned REGULARLY. Algae is going to grow and you're not going to see the fish as you wish. With any sun at all, it will be almost daily. Are you prepared to do this? I know because I have an UW cam system that even though shaded, has to be cleaned about once a week if I want a clear, sharp view of the fish. Your window is going to be much easier to grow on than my cam.

Too, you mentioned the window material, to confirm, you ARE using glass, right? If using any type of plastic, it will scratch easier than glass, so be aware if/when you clean. That's why I like glass better even if you have to go thicker. I'm assuming you have the specs on how thick this window material has to be to prevent blow out. Were it mine, and I'm hedging my bets here, I'd probably want some sort of top steel and/or those cross braces. Windows are tricky and you need to know if it'll work ahead of time. Again, google above ground ponds with windows and see how others have done, then compare your design. You're not far off, imo, but would hate to see any bowing or blowouts.

Still am concerned about what you plan on putting between the water and steel because I think if not strong enough and not sealed well, will bend and you're going to get leaking. Most I've seen that do windows are making their above ground ponds out of heavy thickness wood, with steel frame for the window. There, the header is again, thick wood and the chance of bending or bowing out is reduced, though I did see one YT vid that needed those cross braces, back to front. Jus' sayin'.

Now, re filter; the only noise with a bog filter is where you have your waterfall. That's it. So, if you like the sound of running water, you're all set with a bog filter. You don't need to run pipes to any shed with a bog; you merely establish enough space RIGHT NEXT TO THE pond and treat it like a water garden that helps keep your pond clear and clean. Most store-bought filters are smaller in regards to their biofiltering capacity, that's why a bog is better; lots and lots of surface area for the good bacteria to colonize. And putting plants on top is doubling your function as store-bought have no planting ability. Search here on the forums; there's lots of info and you can make a bog filter fairly easily, cheaply, and DIY. There is a space requirement, that's about the only thing to consider in your case, I believe. If you have any pics of the area you're planning on, post them up and GPF eyes can advise better, re bog possibilities.

For all the models/brands of filter you're considering now, others will have to chime in as I'm a firm believer in less maintenance and better function, hence a member of the BFC.

Re dead zones; not as much a worry in my head, esp if you can create a waterfall at one end (or an outlet pouring of water from a pump) and the pump at the other. The pump will pull, the waterfall(s) will push. The fish will swim and help move water, water is osmotic in that you won't get a concentration of anything in one place without it trying to migrate molecularly to an adjacent one. No movement might give you issues but any water movement helps a lot.

 

[teckpham]

From your drawing, I am assuming the dimension to be around 1.2m wide x 4.8m long x 1.4m deep?

I am not sure what size of steel frame you are going to use, but I don't think you can have a 2.4m window sitting inside the 4.8m long section without 2 top braces on both ends of the glass. Without the braces, then you will have to pour reinforce concrete and embbed that frame section in it.

For glass mounting onto the frame, make sure to use L shade steel. It provides good adhesive area for liner to steel and liner to glass. The glass should be sitting inside the L shape area where the water pressure will keep it in place. Also, use EPDM liner as it stick really well with most pond adhesive.

15mm OSB/3 plates

OSB will rot out door.


I did something similiar to what you are planning here: https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/need-advice-sleeper-pond-with-viewing-window.29990/

Now, another issue I'm not sure you've considered; any glass/window in an above ground pond is going to need to be cleaned REGULARLY.

This is after 2 weeks of not cleaning. It does get a bit dirty.

 

[brokensword]

From your drawing, I am assuming the dimension to be around 1.2m wide x 4.8m long x 1.4m deep?

I am not sure what size of steel frame you are going to use, but I don't think you can have a 2.4m window sitting inside the 4.8m long section without 2 top braces on both ends of the glass. Without the braces, then you will have to pour reinforce concrete and embbed that frame section in it.

For glass mounting onto the frame, make sure to use L shade steel. It provides good adhesive area for liner to steel and liner to glass. The glass should be sitting inside the L shape area where the water pressure will keep it in place. Also, use EPDM liner as it stick really well with most pond adhesive.


OSB will rot out door.


I did something similiar to what you are planning here: https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/need-advice-sleeper-pond-with-viewing-window.29990/


View attachment 147730
This is after 2 weeks of not cleaning. It does get a bit dirty.

hey Teck; I forget, is your window glass or some plastic composite? And, with your floaters, I bet that helps keep the sun from being as aggressive with that window, but how much maintenance DO you have with it? Looks very nice, btw!

 

[teckpham]

@brokensword I am using 12mm toughened glass. As for maintenance, I have only cleaned it a few times in the last 2 months that it was filled. The sun right now is directly from above, so probably why there were not much algae on it. Cleaning it is very quick anyway with that fish tank scrubber.

 

[brokensword]

@brokensword I am using 12mm toughened glass. As for maintenance, I have only cleaned it a few times in the last 2 months that it was filled. The sun right now is directly from above, so probably why there were not much algae on it. Cleaning it is very quick anyway with that fish tank scrubber.

Sounds great, Teck; glad it's working out! Have you taken any pics/vids yet through the glass? And/or, do you have a waterproof cam you can stick right in the water for vids? Be curious to see the difference in quality/clarity.

Always nice to see pics of your pond!

 

[teckpham]

I just took a couple of videos with my phone. It is not that great.

A lot of floating particles. I will have to run the return outlet to the other side of the pond to help with the circulation I think.

 

[Fonne]

@brokensword I am using 12mm toughened glass. As for maintenance, I have only cleaned it a few times in the last 2 months that it was filled. The sun right now is directly from above, so probably why there were not much algae on it. Cleaning it is very quick anyway with that fish tank scrubber.

Wow, really only 12mm glas ? - I had plan 21,5mm toughened laminated glass, but maybe I should consider making it 2 pieces with a beam in the middle insteed.

Laminated Glass & Toughened Laminated Glass Cut To Size | UK

Toughened Laminated Glass can be used for shower screens, table tops, shelves, splashbacks, balustrades, floors and much more. Call us today 020 8500 1188.

www.theglasswarehouse.co.uk

And thanks for all the great reply, will get back later today with replay to all

 

[brokensword]

I just took a couple of videos with my phone. It is not that great.

A lot of floating particles. I will have to run the return outlet to the other side of the pond to help with the circulation I think.

First, thanks for posting so quickly! Nice to see fish swimming and doing pondy things!

Here's a good trick for you; on the first, you're getting reflections. If you have a polarizer OR some polarized sunglasses, hold either up in front of your phone lens, then shoot it. The reflections should go away or minimally, be less!

The second, looks like a bit of color imbalance; might just be your cam vid settings. A lot of times when underwater, you have to compensate. IF your cam has any controls like this whatsoever, try adding some blue to compensate for the yellow/green. But otherwise, good vids! I pulled it into Photoshop to try to find the imbalance and got near, I hope;

screenshot of your vid;

PS attempt to fix; incl some sharpening.

 

[teckpham]

PS attempt to fix; incl some sharpening.

Cool, looks much better


I will try the CPL(K) filter I have tomorrow.

 

[brokensword]

Wow, really only 12mm glas ? - I had plan 21,5mm toughened laminated glass, but maybe I should consider making it 2 pieces with a beam in the middle insteed.

Laminated Glass & Toughened Laminated Glass Cut To Size | UK

Toughened Laminated Glass can be used for shower screens, table tops, shelves, splashbacks, balustrades, floors and much more. Call us today 020 8500 1188.

www.theglasswarehouse.co.uk

And thanks for all the great reply, will get back later today with replay to all

Get the numbers for the size you're using; this has been done before and you don't want that window bowing or leaking. Like I said; tis an engineering problem to solve first and a lot does depend on the forces pushing on the glass in combo with what type frame, strength, etc.