Soil substrate pond

[Meyer Jordan]

Do your pond designs include external filtration?

It is my belief (and science and engineering support it) that 'bogs' and all other forms of wetlands filtration should only be used to supplement the basic mechanical and bio-filtration required for the proper functioning of a pond. The 'bog's' purpose should primarily be to 'polish' the water, removing or greatly reducing the nutrient load of the pond and possibly, depending on design, the removal of other pollutants.

 

[MitchM]

I guess that's where we differ then.
I'm looking at these setups I have as complete ecosystems where all nutrients are contained and dealt with within the system, except for occassional plant trimming. Whatever the conditions the plants are capable of dealing with I would like to observe.
These tanks may be a short term experiment. I'm going to keep that small test tank going as is to see how far it goes.
Thanks.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I guess that's where we differ then.
I'm looking at these setups I have as complete ecosystems where all nutrients are contained and dealt with within the system, except for occassional plant trimming. Whatever the conditions the plants are capable of dealing with I would like to observe.
These tanks may be a short term experiment. I'm going to keep that small test tank going as is to see how far it goes.
Thanks.

I think that what you are doing are valuable experiments. A lot can be learned, especially how just a slight change in one of the variables can influence the entire system.
Every thing goes out the window, however, when and if you add fish to the equation. Even one small fish in your largest tank will exceed the fish population density found in Nature. This is why the basic filtration requirements must usually be met in the typical garden pond first. For a 'bog' to effectively provide biofiltration for a pond stocked with fish, it would require a footprint equal to 40%-50% of the main pond basin and would still require mechanical filtration.
There are those that will say that this is not true because their set-up is much smaller and works just fine. But these are the same individuals that are periodically posting concerning water quality and fish health issues.

 

[MitchM]

I think overstocking is the most common problem people with ponds or aquariums have.
Once the number of fish is reduced, problems should really be few and far between.

 

[Priscilla]

I think what has happened is that over the course of 5 years, detritus has accumulated to the point where the plant roots have been able to find sufficient nutrition to sustain themselves.

Agreed, especially since I quit cleaning the tanks and changing the water. Interestingly, the filters RARELY ever need changing. And by rarely I mean maybe 6 months or so I throw them out and put new ones in, not because they are blocked, they are just brown, but water still flows through them.

When I first started the tanks, before the plants they would be come blocked and water would flow up and over the filters.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Once the number of fish is reduced

Ah! If only!!

 

[MitchM]

It is my belief (and science and engineering support it) that 'bogs' and all other forms of wetlands filtration should only be used to supplement the basic mechanical and bio-filtration required for the proper functioning of a pond. The 'bog's' purpose should primarily be to 'polish' the water, removing or greatly reducing the nutrient load of the pond and possibly, depending on design, the removal of other pollutants.

Using this design, how do you deal with nutrient deficiencies for the plants?

.

 

[Nepen]

I think overstocking is the most common problem people with ponds or aquariums have.
Once the number of fish is reduced, problems should really be few and far between.

until the babies start to appear..... I didnt realized I have like 10+ babies this year. I've never got a baby the last 2 years!!

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Using this design, how do you deal with nutrient deficiencies for the plants?

.

This has never been an issue. Sufficient nutrient levels are present as Nitrate (from bioconversion), Phosphorus.(normal ambient levels), with Carbon and Trace minerals maintained through fish waste.

 

[MitchM]

Where would iron come from in that system?

That's one thing I'm liking about having a more complex substrate (topsoil)
No shortage of iron.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Where would iron come from in that system?

That's one thing I'm liking about having a more complex substrate (topsoil)
No shortage of iron.

There are generally much higher levels of soluble Iron in ground water than in soils. That these levels are measured in micrograms/Liter indicates that a little goes a long way.
Some municipal suppliers do reduce Iron levels mainly for cosmetic purposes (color and odor), but it is not usually completely removed.
If a closed system (pond) were to experience an Iron deficiency, the placement of a couple of 10p nails (or equivalent) in the filter will quickly remedy this shortage without doing any harm to any aquatic organisms.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

As I see it based on what I have gleaned from research on the Benthic Layer is that, no matter the texture or mineral composition, its ultimate benefit to the aquatic environment is not to provide an anchoring mechanism or source of nutrients for plants, but to provide niche environments for the establishment and continuing support of aquatic fauna which form an important link(s) in the Carbon cycle (food chain).
Here that word Diversity again pops up for diversity in the mineral content and related textures will greatly influence and augment the fauna diversity that ultimately colonizes this environment.

 

[MitchM]

I consider plants that are anchored to the bethnic layer to be providing an additional protective environment for aquatic microfauna.
The anchored plants also serve as nutrient traps to both aide in providing nutrients for themselves and aquatic fauna embryo development plus prevent erosion of the benthic layer itself, whatever it consists of.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I consider plants that are anchored to the bethnic layer to be providing an additional protective environment for aquatic microfauna.
The anchored plants also serve as nutrient traps to both aide in providing nutrients for themselves and aquatic fauna embryo development plus prevent erosion of the benthic layer itself, whatever it consists of.

True, but I while am not sure that erosion of the Benthis layer occurs at the bottom of a lentic body of water, it does occur at a low level in some lotic environs.
The fauna habitat aspect of the Benthic layer occurs no matter the depth and light availability. Even in the profundal regions of lakes and oceans the colonization of Benthos is wide spread though no flora exists..

 

[MitchM]

Right.
What lakes and oceans have going for them though, is their size.
In our small systems, interactions between fish and other predatory creatures is much more frequent, so that's why I think that the protection that anchored plants provide is even more important.
Even with the slightest water movement, detritus will float and eventually be trapped around the base of anchored plants.