Another bog building question....depth

Discussion in 'Pond Construction & Equipment' started by Mmathis, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    When you configure the depth, what reference points do you use? Depth is from which point to which point? -- see my diagram --

    I'm planning on about 14" to 16" for my bog, but I don't want to short-change the "active root" area.

    image.jpg
     
    Mmathis, Aug 1, 2014
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  2. Mmathis

    mrsclem mrsclem

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    Mine is 18" from bottom to top of gravel. When we dug out the old one that had been shut down for several years the iris and lizard tail roots went down a foot.
     
    mrsclem, Aug 1, 2014
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  3. Mmathis

    fishin4cars True friends just call me Larkin Moderator

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    Purdin koi- lightning strikes 003.JPG DSC06555.JPG DSC06537.JPG I went with what Addy recommended. 12" I made the bog 15" deep and put 12" of gravel in, I have areas of different depths of water by piling gravel up in mounds if a few areas. This lets about 1-2" of water flow is some areas with other areas that the gravel is above water level. Keep in mind, water depth over the gravel varies with how small or large the outlet is coming out of the pond versus how much water is being pumped in. I use a 3500 GPH pump on my bog. here's some up to date and when I started pics to show you. Most of the bog will be hidden so don't worry a lot about fine details in aquascaping. Do however choose carefully about how you want the final result to look. Do you want a mix of plants, or groupings. I mixed plants up at first and went back and grouped them for more dramatic effect. Try and figure out where the gravel depth is high or low at this time. IMPOSSIBLE! DSC06537.JPG DSC06555.JPG
     
    fishin4cars, Aug 1, 2014
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  4. Mmathis

    fishin4cars True friends just call me Larkin Moderator

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    Maggie, pipes can lay right on the bottom of the liner if you cut slats, of you drill holes the holes most not be sitting right on the bottom. If you want the pipe off the bottom, 1/2" -1" is all you want to raise it and then use several supports because there is a LOT of gravel weight on those pipes, Bowing under the gravel is not seen so a break is pretty much undetectable except where it clogs, That is one primary reason to let the pipe sit flat on the bottom. I am also working with My friend in Vicksburg and we decided to only go 10" deep in his pond bog so we could get more surface area for the amount of liner and room he had to work with. I'm actually thinking that the 10" may be a little easier to work with later on that the 12" depth is but I won't know any of those answers for quite a while.
     
    fishin4cars, Aug 1, 2014
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  5. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    Thanks, Larkin & Mrsclem! I had one of those moments where you think you know what you're doing until you actually think about it..... Does that make sense?

    Your bog looks great, Larkin! Mine's going to be a raised strip [longer than wide] -- kinda boring, nothing fancy. Was already thinking about grouping my plants.

    What size tubing do you have under your bog? What comes out of my pump will be 1 1/2", but I've never been clear on whether you need less pressure [larger tubing] or more pressure [small tubing] pushing the water up through the gravel.
     
    Mmathis, Aug 1, 2014
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  6. Mmathis

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Mine is 2.5 feet deep, when I pull plants the only plants that have deep roots is the rush and grasses. Everything else is shallow.
    I used 2 inch pvc, my pump is 6850 or so gph most going to the bog, small amount going to the stock tank.

    The gravel disappears from sight rapidly, unless you go out and purge plants
     
    addy1, Aug 1, 2014
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  7. Mmathis

    fishin4cars True friends just call me Larkin Moderator

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    Again, I used a lot of Addy's advice, I went with 2" as well. On my friends we went with 2" Mine I drilled holes, On my friends we cut slots. If I could do that part over again I would cut slots. Much easier, less chance of clogging. 1.5" will probably be fine, the only pressure is the resistance from the clogging of the roots, pipe size only has a minimal restriction with all the outlets all in the pipes.
     
    fishin4cars, Aug 1, 2014
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  8. Mmathis

    Nepen

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    This is so interesting (I'm planing my dream new pond haha) and I've been playing with these details too. Thanks Mmathis for the question!

    Larkin's bog is so pretty!! wow!

    I'm wondering if it's ok to use the 20mil liner on the bog. We may be moving every few years so I dont need a pond liner that can last 20 years.

    Also I still struggling with how the flex tube from the pump connect to the pipe, how did you do it, what did you use? I'm always struggle to connect the tubing and the pipe :( Did you connect it close to the bog? or right from the pump?
     
    Nepen, Aug 1, 2014
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  9. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    @addy1 2 1/2' deep? Wow, that's the most I've heard of -- 12" to 18" is the range I've found most commonly. Do your longer-rooted plants make it all the way to the bottom?

    @fishin4cars and @addy1 If I have 1 1/2" tubing coming from my pump, can I bump that up to 2" inside the bog, or should I stay with the same diameter? I do plan to make slits.
     
    Mmathis, Aug 1, 2014
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  10. Mmathis

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    It ended up that deep just because some crazy tractor driver did not stop digging.

    I made slits, used 2 in pvc just because it is what I used for my lines. Since you are using 1.5 you could stay with 1.5 imho
     
    addy1, Aug 1, 2014
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  11. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    @Nepen What kind of tubing are you using? I got tired of never being able to find the right adapters, so I'm planning to convert everything over to mostly flex-PVC [and some standard PVC]. With flex-PVC you can use all the same fittings & adapters that you use for standard PVC. But you want to have as few joinings as possible -- less water resistance and less chance of leaks. Where I can't use flex-PVC, I'll use "long sweep" [think that's what it's called] bends .
     
    Mmathis, Aug 1, 2014
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  12. Mmathis

    fishin4cars True friends just call me Larkin Moderator

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    TM, you can stay with 1.5" or bump up. personally I would go 2" if your thinking about using it then if you ever need to add a pump with a two inch adapter you would already have the same pipe for it. a lot of pumps do come with two inch outlets now.
    Also if using any flex tubing make double sure what kind of glue to use, some require transition glue, some require regular PVC. Use a spare hard coupling and a piece of tubing to make double sure they hold tight. I had a couple of bad experiences using flex tubing and got away from using it all together, but I have seen others use I with great success. My issues I think were because I used the wrong type glue.
     
    fishin4cars, Aug 1, 2014
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  13. Mmathis

    Nepen

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    TM, I normally use corrugated tubing, isnt it the same as flex tubing? I have no clue.

    It's like, the outlet from the pump never fit in the tubing, then the tubing never fit in the pvc.. argggggg... and trying to fit corrugated tubing to pvc was like pulling a maple tree out by hand :( impossible.

    what do people do?
     
    Nepen, Aug 1, 2014
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  14. Mmathis

    dieselplower

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    If you want the bog to function effectively as a mechanical filter, deeper is better.
     
    dieselplower, Aug 1, 2014
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  15. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    No, 2 different things, and that's the problem I always had -- nothing would fit. Flex-PVC is PVC pipe, tubing, whatever, that is bendable, but not as flexible as the corrugated tubing. So there are still some limitations, but it DOES work with regular PVC fittings -- you have to use a certain kind of PVC solvent to join it [as Larkin was referring to] -- the regular PVC "glue" [solvent] isn't recommended. Also, that corrugated tubing has a reputation for splitting, which has happened to me a couple of times.

    Here is one site, but you could Google "flex-PVC" and find more information.
    http://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=5_Flex_PVC_Pipe_1-1/2_inch
     
    Mmathis, Aug 1, 2014
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  16. Mmathis

    Nepen

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    Thanks! ugh, my dream pond is getting more expensive now. I just had to reduce the size already because the size of the liner.. and this is just a planning, no land to build on yet. lol. I just need to plan it and get all the items/cost then see where I can get the budget from :)
     
    Nepen, Aug 1, 2014
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  17. Mmathis

    Lisak1

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    Our bog is 4 feet deep - I had two helpers who dug until the grill was hot and I could feed them! Actually we used a pump vault in our bog, so that determined our minimum depth.
     
    Lisak1, Aug 1, 2014
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  18. Mmathis

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    With our rocks it took me 3/4 days to dig out the bog area, with a tractor.
     
    addy1, Aug 1, 2014
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  19. Mmathis

    ZmanArt007 Fish Keeper and Filmmaker

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    @Lisak1 Four feet deep?! That's a LOT of gravel! Do roots really need that much depth?? I want a bog but I have no where to put it for it to look natural because my pond is raised.
     
    ZmanArt007, Aug 1, 2014
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  20. Mmathis

    Nepen

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    Zman, I know the problem. I love raised pond but also a bog. I'm trying to work out how to have a raised pond and a bog together. I might have to have half raised instead but that would still work :)
     
    Nepen, Aug 2, 2014
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