Carp pox — and a dilemma

Discussion in 'Illness and Disease' started by Mmathis, May 5, 2018.

  1. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    From what I have read, this is caused by a virus and can’t be cured. Have also read, that while this condition in itself isn’t harmful to the fish, that it can set them up for secondary infections by weakening their immune systems. And that once the virus is in the water, it’s well, it’s THERE and any susceptible* fish can contract it. Poor water quality can be an issue in setting up for this, but not always.

    I have several gold fish that have been coming down with this over the past couple of years. I have debated about removing these fish and euthanizing them — but it’s just so hard to do that, BWAH! :(:cry: Other than being disfigured, they are lovely, active, healthy fish.......

    *One source I read a few years ago said that there can be a genetic pre-disposition for fish being susceptible which originally made me think that by culling these fish, I could remove the “genetic” weakness from the gene pool.

    But even if I remove these fish, won’t the virus still be there?

    [Basically, my pond is under stocked (30-ish small to med-sized GF in 3000 gallons), well filtered, well aerated, probably over planted. I admit that I haven’t regularly checked my water parameters, but stopped doing that when my results were always WNL.]

    I’m very conflicted! My fish are my pets, but at the same time, I hate to think that I am ALLOWING this to continue in my pond! There are about 4 or 5 that currently have the “bumps,” but was only able to get pics of a couple of them — and I think these are pretty much just different shots of 2 of the fish.

    Your thoughts would be appreciated!!!!!


    64CB0B57-051B-4645-BA2C-0C6855F53FFC.jpeg
     
    Mmathis, May 5, 2018
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  2. Mmathis

    Tula

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    Hmmmm, those spots look bigger then I pictured carp pox, but maybe it's just a close up that makes them appear bigger.

    If it were my pond, I'd have to do more research so I had a definitive diagnosis and knew more about the virus. If more fish are developing this each year it sounds like it's spreading.
     
    Tula, May 5, 2018
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  3. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    I’ve always assumed it was carp pox, based on what others have said over the years, and that it reacts to cold and warm temps like carp pox (gets better in warmer weather/water). Once, a few years back (on another fish) I did a scrape and there was nothing to indicate there were any “bugs” involved. It was just a gelatinous mass that wouldn’t scrape off — so after one attempt at removal, I decided it was best to not disturb the cells.

    But, hey, I am open to suggestions and differential diagnosis! If it is carp pox, there isn’t a treatment for it, though.
     
    Mmathis, May 5, 2018
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  4. Mmathis

    MitchM

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    I would just try to keep your water quality as high as possible and make sure they're getting all the nutrients they need.
    Try to reduce their stress level as much as possible by providing hiding spaces and, even better if your water has a cloudiness to it that allows them to retreat to the lower depths in an instant.
    Keep track of your water temperature to see how much correlation there is between water temperature and size of the white bumps.
     
    MitchM, May 6, 2018
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  5. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    @MitchM I can see where reducing stress could be helpful. There are several hiding places for them so that’s not an issue, plus lots of plants on the bottom that they can take refuge in. I’ve already noted that the spots/bumps worsen in the cooler months, and get better when it warms up — as you would expect with carp pox.
     
    Mmathis, May 6, 2018
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    bettasngoldfish Maria

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    Since they seem happy and healthy other than the bumps I would leave them to live out their lives.
     
    bettasngoldfish, May 6, 2018
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    Lisak1

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    Yup. I would say carp pox and honestly I would leave them be. Unless you are prepared to completely get rid of all your fish it would be impossible to guarantee that none of the others haven't already been infected and just aren't symptomatic. Just what you need to "take care of" the ones that show signs and then have another one or two get bumps! :eek: You aren't adding more fish to your pond or giving any of your fish away to anyone else, so you essentially have a contained situation.
     
    Lisak1, May 6, 2018
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  8. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    @Lisak1 Yeah, not that I WANTED to hear it, but that’s where my conflicted thoughts were taking me. I just can’t justify “culling” them when I know about the epidemiology involved. I did read somewhere that if you remove all the fish for a few days that the virus would cease to exist without a host. Hmmmm, that doesn’t fit the profile of a “virus.” And that doesn’t make sense because all of the fish have been exposed, and the susceptible ones are likely either already infected, or are carriers. Thanks! And @bettasngoldfish and @MitchM, will do my best to reduce stress and let them go on being happy and healthy. I’m always keeping an eye out for changes in their behavior, so will let that be my guide. As long as there are no signs of illness/distress.....

    I wish our fishies could know how important they are in reducing our stress level! Well, when they’re not the cause of it...LOL!
     
    Mmathis, May 6, 2018
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    Mucky_Waters

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    I'll tell you this, I had a yellow metallic butterfly Koi that had carp pox but I left him alone hoping it would clear up, but instead it seemed to get a little worse every year until the last year it got particularly bad and I noticed the other koi in my pond started to also develop some little pox blisters as well. I finally "culled" the yellow one who had it so bad and within a month the koi pox cleared up on all the other koi and have had no symptoms since. So, it seems like some koi have a natural immunity to fight it provided they aren't continually exposed to it, but some, like that one yellow koi, have little or no immunity and can't get rid of it and become carriers of the virus.
    Even humans use to expel community members with leprosy from the general population.
     
    Mucky_Waters, May 6, 2018
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  10. Mmathis

    Mmathis TurtleMommy

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    Mmathis, May 6, 2018
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