Ideas for waterfall rebuild please

[Pond skipper]

I have a leak somewhere, I’ve been bypassing the different elements of the whole structure and it’s not in the main pond I have it narrowed down to either the pea gravel bog garden or the waterfall. Pretty sure it’s the bog garden because when I bypass the waterfall (that’s what so the hoses in the pic are for) it still seems to leak. I’m decided to redo the whole thing (waterfall and bog) I have two main questions. Currently the bog garden is just fed by the waterfall. The waterfall is fed by the garbage can filter. Do you all think I should install one of those under gravel systems (the ones made of pvc pipe ) in the bottom of the bog while I’ve got it all torn up? Do you think it is worth it since there already is filtration from the garbage can system? I guess it couldn’t hurt but what do you think. Secondly, my waterfall was just made of rocks and stone slabs that are fed directly from the filter no reservoir at the top or anything just water spills out the outflow and over the rocks into the bog. I’m looking for a whole new better design maybe with a little reservoir at the top to spill out of. What do you guys think and I’d there a good home made way of making the reservoir. I’m really scared of building it all again and having leaks. It took me forever to get all the rocks in place to stop all the leaks in the waterfall originally. I will try and upload some pictures now.. If it doesn’t work I will add another post after.

 

[GBBUDD]

Currently the bog garden is just fed by the waterfall.

Thats not a bog. a bog has water pumped to the bottom of the bog . and then if you'd like a waterfall or 5 of them you just have the water from the bog exit a low spot in the bog.

Do you think it is worth it since there already is filtration from the garbage can system

I would focus on the bog it has done me right

 

[Pond skipper]

Thanks for the reply, it is a big garden although not as involved as some, the water falls down in the back and enters the gravel base and percolates up through at least the top 1/4 of the gravel. Which (at least until this year) had bog plants and marginals planted on it. The problem is the filter and waterfall are above and behind the bog although the bog does spill out over a low shelf into the main pond. I was thinking the way to get around that would be to use my second pump to feed the under gravel pipes. Does your bog use The pvc under gravel pipe system. It looks very natural from your pic. I have attached a pic of my set up from last year

 

[Lisak1]

Very pretty pond!

Agree with @GBBUDD - while a natural bog is defined as water percolating over and through an area of plants and wet, boggy ground a manmade wetland filter is constructed with the manifold under gravel and a pump to push water up through the gravel. You could combine your current sent up I suppose and have the waterfall still flow into the bog, but it's not ideal on several levels.

How much reconstruction are you considering? You could rotate your bog to the side of the pond and let the waterfall drop directly into the pond, but it would take a bit of work obviously.

 

[GBBUDD]

Trick answer , yes , as i have two bogs one with aquablocks and another with the pvc pipe. I DO HAVE A STRICKLY DECORATIVE BOG, this has pitcher plants and moss. The area is a couple inches below the water line where i have a layer of 3/4 rock and the a mix of course sand a peatmoss.

 

[Pond skipper]

Very pretty pond!

Agree with @GBBUDD - while a natural bog is defined as water percolating over and through an area of plants and wet, boggy ground a manmade wetland filter is constructed with the manifold under gravel and a pump to push water up through the gravel. You could combine your current sent up I suppose and have the waterfall still flow into the bog, but it's not ideal on several levels.

How much reconstruction are you considering? You could rotate your bog to the side of the pond and let the waterfall drop directly into the pond, but it would take a bit of work obviously.

Thanks. I don’t think it’s an option to change the orientation of the bog and waterfall. The only way I could possibly do something like that would be to cut the bog in half and route the waterfall down one side but it’s already a small bog as it is. Based on what you guys are saying though I will definitely install the under gravel manifold system. Just wondering why you say it’s not ideal to also have the waterfall spilling into it? I realize that the water from the falls wouldn’t be going up through the gravel for filtration but it is getting filtered by the garbage can filter. Is there Another reason it’s not good? Thanks again for the replies.

 

[Lisak1]

Just the idea of opposing forces - water pushing up meeting water fall down. Not a huge deal really, as long as your bog is built to function properly. If you plant the bog though, won't you lose the view of the actual waterfall?

 

[Pond skipper]

Yes, that’s exactly what I had a problem with. I really had to be specific with the plants. Tall ones like canna lilies were on either side and lower spreading types were in front to still keep the view. I think I’ve figured out a design that will keep almost all of the bog and run the waterfall in an arc down one side.. now if I can only figure out where the darn leak is. Every time I think I’ve got it figured out the pond gods laugh and move it..

 

[GBBUDD]

MORE THAN LIKELY THE LEAK IS AROUND THE SKIMMER OR FALLS. SPLASHING CAN BE A MAJOR CONTRIBUTER. AS CAN IMPROPPER SEAL AROUND THE SKIMMER. but usually it the waterfall it's self and the over lap

 

[Pond skipper]

Hey thanks for the input. I tried both of those. The waterfall was my first thought but it’s completely dismantled now and is by passed it already. I’m pretty sure I’ve got it narrowed down to the gravel bog but if it is that means it’sa problem with the liner. I’m trying one more thing to see if I can confirm it. If it lost water today I’ll know for sure it’s the big though and I’ll probably just add a new letter of liner.

 

[Pond skipper]

I have another question too. When I rebuild the waterfalls I want to do a better job at controlling where water can go when it’s going over the rock shelves. What is the best thing to use to secure the rocks and make the seem where they sit on the shelves water tight so the water only flows where I want it to. Something that’s fish friendly of course.?

 

[GBBUDD]

Hey thanks for the input. I tried both of those. The waterfall was my first thought but it’s completely dismantled now and is by passed it already. I’m pretty sure I’ve got it narrowed down to the gravel bog but if it is that means it’sa problem with the liner. I’m trying one more thing to see if I can confirm it. If it lost water today I’ll know for sure it’s the big though and I’ll probably just add a new letter of liner.

Liner can be patched easily and successfully. here's a how to https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/seaming-epdm-liner.26807/

 

[GBBUDD]

I have another question too. When I rebuild the waterfalls I want to do a better job at controlling where water can go when it’s going over the rock shelves. What is the best thing to use to secure the rocks and make the seem where they sit on the shelves water tight so the water only flows where I want it to. Something that’s fish friendly of course.?

water fall foam is not waterproof but it does direct water where you want it to go . but if it is to stop water from going downhill to a low edge it will leak. The idea of foam is to keep the water flowing over the rocks where we can see it and not slip under them. How ever i have used a quality caulking and skim coated the foam once it was dry basically painting the foam with the caulking and that can make it water proof. Many have tried this to seal to rocks like in between a natural rock formation. that can work for a time but imo will eventually fail.

 

[Pond skipper]

Thanks for the link. I will check it out as soon as I figure out where the dang leak is. Any ideas on how to find it? I’m pretty sure I’ve got it narrowed down to that bog but just when I think it’s there for sure it seems like the leak stops. I’m guessing that the level that the leak must be right where the bogs water level has stabilized since I’ve got it bypassed now as well and it isn’t going down it must be coincidentally, right at the level I want it to stay at but when water is still going through it I start losing water so I bypassed it and it stopped losing water but the level stayed the same. It’s a head scratcher for me. I guess the only thing to do is somehow try to see a tiny hole or cut at the water line. Anybody know an easy way to do that?

 

[Pond skipper]

Yea I used waterfall foam on my old waterfall but didn’t have much luck with it but what I was trying to do (aside from secure the rocks a bit and keep the water flowing in the right direction as you described) was to keep any water from going backwards between the rocks. I had thought that was where I was losing water. Seems maybe it wasn’t that street all. I used the foam after the fact though, like kind after the waterfall was built and I didn’t find it very easy to get it to go where I wanted it. Is it easier to use as you build. I saw a video of a guy using regular “Great Foam” expanding foam to secure styrofoam blocks together. He sprayed the bottom piece with the foam and then took the top piece of styrofoam and squished it onto it and then piled it apart, let it sit for 5 minutes and then put it back together. Do you think that would be a good method for the rocks?