Potted and bogged

[tbendl]

So I have been doing a lot of reading trying to get educated about plants as a filter and I have a question. I am planning a bog and would like to have some potted plants in the pond. Are both equally good at filtering nutrients from the water? From what I've read, in order of best to worst filterers, it seems like floaters and bottom grasses are the best followed by bog plants and lastly potted plants. Is this true?

 

[sissy]

any plant in the pond will filter water you just have to remember they use up oxygen at night and give it off during the day .Fish can be stressed because of a lack of oxygen .I use plants in both my filters because I have koi that destroy plants

 

[Lisak1]

Hmmm... I've never thought of them in terms of "best to worst". In my mind plants that are directly planted in the pond (in gravel on the shelf for example) or floating in the water are going to filter more efficiently than those planted in pots. But that's just my brain reasoning things out - no science behind that thought at all! I do have a few plants still in pots, but I'm working on getting as many growing directly in the pond as possible, mainly because I don't enjoy the "drop them to the bottom in the fall and then fish them out again in spring" routine.

In the bog I've noticed some of my plants root deeply (like irises, holy cow!) and others more shallow (like water celery). Again, my reasoning tells me those are serving two different purposes... but I might be all wet. (Haha! Get it?)

 

[JBtheExplorer]

Bog will filter much better than plants in the pond but in my opinion, they are both important. Bogs filter better because the water is flowing directly through them. Plants in ponds are great for adding oxygen, using up nutrients, and shading the pond.

 

[JohnHuff]

So I have been doing a lot of reading trying to get educated about plants as a filter and I have a question. I am planning a bog and would like to have some potted plants in the pond. Are both equally good at filtering nutrients from the water? From what I've read, in order of best to worst filterers, it seems like floaters and bottom grasses are the best followed by bog plants and lastly potted plants. Is this true?

Floating plants are the best for uptake of nutrients from the water.

A bog is not a filter. It's a trap for waste products. Only do a bog if you want it for plants. Read the 3rd post down by Waterbug: http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/ponds/msg0613005022283.html?53

 

[Crow]

Mr. Huff,

That's a good link... I've been reading and reading and the one thing that keeps coming to mind is "that has to be a detritus trap, how is it a filter?"

Through years of reef aquaria keeping and participating in the forums of the hobby, I can correlate this easily to many tried methods of filtration and tank husbandry, along with the philosophies and arguments that accompany them.

Thanks for the read, Dr. Sir John Huff.

 

[JohnHuff]

"that has to be a detritus trap, how is it a filter?"

Boggers consider it a filter because it contains plants which utilize fish waste. The gravel also works as media that bacteria can colonize. The biggest problem however is the waste products aren't removed from the pond environment. They are trapped in the bog for years and can't really be removed. I compared it in one post to wearing a gigantic diaper that doesn't have to be changed for years.

 

[Nepen]

Boggers consider it a filter because it contains plants which utilize fish waste. The gravel also works as media that bacteria can colonize. The biggest problem however is the waste products aren't removed from the pond environment. They are trapped in the bog for years and can't really be removed. I compared it in one post to wearing a gigantic diaper that doesn't have to be changed for years.

I think that if you have a pre-filter it should help with that problem.
I'm considering pre-filter, a bog, and a smaller trickle filter for my next pond

 

[Crow]

Right, plants use the P released by rotting material, but the rest of the detritus stays put. In fact you need even more bacteria to break it down than would have been necessary otherwise. Bacteria unfortunately have relatively short life cycles, thus adding to the growing pile of decay, thus requiring more bacteria. Would it be needed in the first place if the accumulation weren't there? If left to accumulate indefinitely it can lead to a system leaning toward eutrophication.

Me, I'm a gardener. I love plants, and I'm pursuing a plant science major. I like bog plants, and like the thought of having a bog to house them. However I don't think I should use a bog for filtration purposes but rather to grow the plants I like. Knowing the inherent characteristics of bogs would let me deal with potential issues.

It is very easily likened to the sand bed or bare bottom debate within reef communities. A quick Google search and you can see what I mean. Those debates get heated quickly. So far pond peeps seem more laid back.

 

[addy1]

I recently dug down to the bottom of my bog, it has been running for almost 5 years, nothing but clean gravel, no big accumulation of debris, no smell, I do have a leaf basket collecting large debris before it gets into the bog. (bog is my only filter for our pond)

So for me it is doing a great job, no dirty diaper here.

 

[Crow]

Interesting. So where does most of the waste from your inhabitants accumulate? Is it simply not making its way to the bog?

 

[addy1]

I do not draw from the bottom of the pond, that I net now and then, about once a year, pick up the accumulated plant material etc. Usually very little Maybe 1/2-3/4 of a 5 gallon bucket, in the fall.
The intake is a 3 inch pipe, draw by a external lim dragon pump, rated 6800 or gph, around 6-8 inches above the bottom of the pond, leaf basket between the pond and pump, hardly ever clean it out. Direct push into the bog. I have some gutter guard wrapped around the pipe to keep snails, fish etc from being sucked up.

 

[JohnHuff]

I think that if you have a pre-filter it should help with that problem.
I'm considering pre-filter, a bog, and a smaller trickle filter for my next pond

That's a no-no. You're not supposed to use a pre-filter.

"8. Starving the bog – this happens when a pre-filter* is placed on the intake of the pump, this not only stresses the pump but defeats the entire purpose of the bog by starving the plants of the nutrients that are being caught in the pre-filter."
From here: http://nelsonwatergardens.com/gravel-bog-filter-construction

I recently dug down to the bottom of my bog, it has been running for almost 5 years, nothing but clean gravel, no big accumulation of debris, no smell, I do have a leaf basket collecting large debris before it gets into the bog. (bog is my only filter for our pond)

So for me it is doing a great job, no dirty diaper here.

In that case, your bog is not doing its job. It's not a good thing. No dirty diaper means the waste is running down your legs. The diaper is supposed to catch the waste. It's like saying your mechanical filter is doing a great job because it's clean and you haven't had to clean it for 5 years.

You bog folks need to read up on bogs.
http://nelsonwatergardens.com/gravel-bog-filter-construction
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=2153
http://iwgs.org/filtering-the-pond-with-a-bog-garden/
http://www.bogfiltration.com/bogfiltration.html

If you've constructed your bog correctly, it should be a giant diaper that you wear. You should see that its concern isn't to do with keeping your backside clean. It's to do with trapping waste for your bog plants.

 

[addy1]

Well all I can say is my pond stays in the perfect water test range, with minimal work on my part. The amount of muck is minimal for the size of the pond, cleaned at most once a year (after leaf fall). Fish are healthy, pond is healthy, snails, frogs etc love it. Plants grow great, minimal algae.............so I am happy. Works for me

 

[JohnHuff]

Well all I can say is my pond stays in the perfect water test range, with minimal work on my part. The amount of muck is minimal for the size of the pond, cleaned at most once a year (after leaf fall). Fish are healthy, pond is healthy, snails, frogs etc love it. Plants grow great, minimal algae.............so I am happy. Works for me

I'm beginning to sound like WB here but the problem with a lot of folks is that they just believe what they want to believe and when people point out that they're wrong, they just try and justify their error in some way.

Is it too difficult to think that what you originally thought was incorrect and that some other reason is correct instead? That's the only way to learn and improve your knowledge.

What you're saying here is that you're really not pooping into your diaper and it's clean. Your diaper is suppose to be dirty. Poop into it. That's its purpose. If 5 years in and it's clean, then it's not doing it's job!

Did you even read any of the links I posted up there? Forget it...