two fish dead rest not well

[dieselplower]

LOL he read it but you might as well forget it DP, he doesn't have any interest in having anybody "like him". He prefers to be the lone wolf.
Lone wolves don't take part in group discussions, they just make statements, it's one of their traits.
Doesn't make him wrong or right, it just means you can't discuss things with him like you could with "normal" forum members.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Lt_6AgjIFXE
Of course he always has the option to prove me wrong, sometime people change.

I think Rambos callsign was Lone Wolf. Maybe Waterbug = Rambok

 

[crsublette]

Yes, Dave, he could have. But I can also understand that it becomes rather tiring typing the same info over and over again, when anyone can find it using the search feature

Hmmm... I repeat myself all the time and I am not tired of the repetition in helping folk!!! I enjoy helping folk. Folk are good folk. I like most folk. :cheerful:

People need to get over them self and stop being so smirky toward folk due to their personal annoyances. It is quite insulting to newcomers that are here to honestly get help rather than to be told they are lazy.


Timber took the time to have a conversation with folk, with strangers at best, for a real life solution so I am going to properly respect Timber's time with the equivalent amount of my time to provide a proper solution through a proper conversation.

 

[crsublette]

I am in Blackburn,Lancashire,England and NO I haven't give up on the hobby and the pond will NOT be getting filled in, I am very very upset at the what as happened to my fish, I am an animal lover and hate to see any living thing in distress. I have done a water test and these are the results.

GH = 40
KH = 0
PH = 6.5
No2 = 0.5
No3 = 20

P.S. I need all the help you are willing to give.

Dave.

Before looking into the hyperlinks, be sure to read through all my posts here.


It looks like you might have ammonia problems, but, at 6.5 pH, the ammonia would have to be incredibly high to be the cause of the problems. Check out the thread. Remedial Water Chemistry and Treatment. and other thread in the chemistry subsection. An ammonia test would be good to do. With a Nitrite (NO2) of .5 ppm, this gives me the impression that your ammonia might be quite high. First Time High Ammonia thread might be helpful for ya. To address any ammonia problems, first need to know your ammonia levels. Personally, I would do as others have suggested in regards to the water changes. Continue to do daily or every other day water changes of around 20~40%, if this is feasible, until you receive your ammonia test.

Also, with 0 KH and that many fish along with the accumulation of Nitrite, I believe your pH might be significantly swinging very well below 6.5. This can cause your fish's gills to get burnt and permamentally damaged.

I am not familiar with the area there. So Dave54 might be of more help in recommending materials to help buffer your KH. At that low of a pH, then simply just crushed oyster shells, from the farm store, will help tremendously in the health of your fish. Since your fish sound quite stress already, I would be carefuling about using baking soda causing a sudden change.



On the same day, can you test the pH once in the morning and once in the early evening ?? This will tell us on the significance of the pH swing.

When do you think you can receive an ammonia test kit ??


Timber, no worries. Not going to lie by suggesting you might not lose more fish. Unfrotunately, you are receiving a crash course in pond keeping that everyone experiences. It is a tough lesson, but a good one. Just keep that head up and press forward. :cheerful: :claphands:

 

[crsublette]

I believe my pond is a 1000 ltr.preformed pond.i am using a blagdon all in one http://www.pond-planet.co.uk/pond-f...0-p-797.html?gclid=CNf67Ny9yLkCFVDItAody2IAlg

and a http://www.petplanet.co.uk/product....m_medium=cpc&gclid=CO-eoo2-yLkCFebJtAodaykAwg

going into a http://www.keengardener.co.uk/pond-filters/1143-hozelock-ecocel-2500-pond-filter.html

Please help, I don't want to cause any more distress to the fish.

Ok. For a 1000 litre pond, you have 13 gold fish and 3 koi. This is far too many fish, as others have suggested.

With your low pH and zero KH, then I bet your water's pH is swinging like crazy and I bet there is a significant volume of ammonia.

The Hozelock Ecocel 2500 is too small for that number of fish.

Generally, for beginners, I suggest 280~380 litres per goldfish and 1900 litres per koi. More for koi since they grow exponentially faster. Now, this is for beginners. For other folk, this is not many fish at all, but this is ok for beginners since you are learning the strings to it all.

Unfortunately, you need to transplant many of those fish as soon as possible.

If you really want to push your luck, then you can keep 5 goldfish and 1 koi, but there may likely still be struggles.


If you have access to Water Hycanth or Water Lettuce, then look into floating these plants. If your ammonia is quite high, as I suspect, then these plants may adjust quick to soaking up the ammonia.


Again, Timber, no worries, but you will lose more fish if you do not reduce the number of fish in the pond. Unfrotunately, you are receiving a crash course in pond keeping that everyone experiences. It is a tough lesson, but a good one. Just keep that head up and press forward. :cheerful: :claphands:

 

[timber]

did a test on the tap water this morning and these are the results

GH = 30
KH = 30
PH = 7.0
No2 = 0.5
No3 = 40

no more deaths this morning, my current stock is. 1 x 6" Koi. 2 x 4" ghost koi. 2 x 3" Goldfish 2 x 3" Shubunkins, and 3 X 3" Blue orfe
Total of 10 fish.

 

[dieselplower]

The big water change would have brought down the concentration that was probably killing your fish. You do have. Very high levels of nitrite and nitrate in your water, which is unfortunate. I still suggest sticking with 5 fish. Thanks for posting more numbers and good luck!

 

[crsublette]

did a test on the tap water this morning and these are the results

GH = 30
KH = 30
PH = 7.0
No2 = 0.5
No3 = 40

no more deaths this morning, my current stock is. 1 x 6" Koi. 2 x 4" ghost koi. 2 x 3" Goldfish 2 x 3" Shubunkins, and 3 X 3" Blue orfe
Total of 10 fish.

I think the water changes have mad a major contribution, but the Nitrite levels looks to be still high and I am still very curious about the volume ammonia.

10 fish, with 3 of them koi, for a 1000 litre pond is still quite alot of fish; so, I agree there still needs to be more fish transplanted if possible.

 

[dieselplower]

I think the water changes have mad a major contribution, but the Nitrite levels looks to be still high and I am still very curious about the volume ammonia.

10 fish, with 3 of them koi, for a 1000 litre pond is still quite alot of fish; so, I agree there still needs to be more fish transplanted if possible.

Problem is that is the TAP levels!

 

[crsublette]

Problem is that is the TAP levels!

Oh shoot man. Good catch. I misread it.


Yeah, that is a problem.

Now, I recall Dave54 having the same issue with this water, that is having a nitrate level of 50ppm or so, but not for sure on the Nitrite presence.


Unless Timber has a different source of water to use, then this is all we got and still best used to remedy the ammonia problems due to the high fish density with poor filtration.

 

[crsublette]

did a test on the tap water this morning and these are the results

GH = 30
KH = 30
PH = 7.0
No2 = 0.5
No3 = 40

no more deaths this morning, my current stock is. 1 x 6" Koi. 2 x 4" ghost koi. 2 x 3" Goldfish 2 x 3" Shubunkins, and 3 X 3" Blue orfe
Total of 10 fish.

Timber, if your tests are correct and this is your tap water, then, personally, I would still continue to do water changes due to the high fish density with poor filtration, but, to make sure, you really need to do an ammonia test.

Otherwise, to address the .5ppm Nitrite, assuming the test is correct, then I would recommend you using a water detoxifier product, that neutralizes Nitrite amongst other stuff, so we can get the Nitrite under control. A good detoxifier is AmQuel Plus. There are other products out there that likely work just as good so you might need to go to your local fish store to see what they have available. If the detoxifier product is too expensive, then you will need to look into increasing the water's salinity to .10%, at the very least, and the procedures and cautions are discussed quite well in the thread, First Time High Ammonia; absolutely be sure you read the entire thread before adding any salinity; if done incorrectly, then this could cause more problems.

Once the Nitrite is neutralized, then you will need to improve your biological filtration.

There are many ideas on this forum and elsewhere, but I will list a few options that may help you get jumpstarted. There is the DIY koiguy skippy filter, a DIY trickle tower, and you could also build your self a bog in a seperate container where the water gravity flows back into the pond.

If you want something simple, then look into the retail pond store products that sell a biological filter with the keywords "wet/dry" or "trickle" such as Tetra's gravity pond filter.

To start out easy, you can try adding alot of nutrient soaking plants, which will also give more area for bacteria to grow to neutralize the Nitrite. Look into using Water Hycanth, Water Lettuce, and also some rushes/sedges. It will take a few weeks for these plants to complete their transition, but, once they do, then they will do the job.

So, all this and also reducing the fish population.


First is to improve your water quality.

Then, you can look into other stuff such as if it is bacterial, parasitic, or a pathogen.

 

[capewind]

On the up side guys, knowing that these readings are from the tap, we are not sitting here thinking that the nitrite reading was near 3 before an 80% water change ...

 

[Fishylove]

Good job guys! Keep at it Timber, unfortunately Mother Nature can be a "B" sometimes, but it's just her way of leveling the playing field so to speak. If the levels in your pond hadn't have taken the weaker fish, it would eventually take them all It is possible to keep more fish ( with the exception of koi) in a pond your size, but that is for much much Much more experienced ponders. Nothing personal against your ability to learn, it just takes time to learn EVERYTHING there is to know a out ponding, Heck we are all still learning. One reason I really enjoy this forum, like minded people willing to learn more about nature, and if we can't figure it out, we learn together
Good luck my friend

 

[Dave 54]

Oh shoot man. Good catch. I misread it.


Yeah, that is a problem.

Now, I recall Dave54 having the same issue with this water, that is having a nitrate level of 50ppm or so, but not for sure on the Nitrite presence.


Unless Timber has a different source of water to use, then this is all we got and still best used to remedy the ammonia problems due to the high fish density with poor filtration.

Seems I missed all the fun yesterday, started prepping the pond for winter and didnt finish till late.
Charles I believe your refaring to the amount of nitrate we get out of our taps here in Plymouth during the time farmers are fertilizing their fields .
After that though it stops being a problem for the rest of the year ....
Timber I was born in Oldham moving down to where we now live with the Royal Navy , my blood must have thinned as its to darn cold up there in winter, not only that its a far slower pace down here :blueflower:

rgrds

Dave .