Val and I are in total shock.

Discussion in 'Fish & Koi Talk' started by Dave 54, Feb 22, 2018.

  1. Dave 54

    Dave 54

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    Strangely enough @Lisak1 is that all but one of the older koi perished and two of the between 2 - 5 year relatively young koi
    The three survivors look good apart from the doitsu Goromo that is working its way through Koi Pox which ca take upwards of 4 - 5 years to clear but as you know Koi pox isnt anything to worry over , it cures itself eventually we all know that .
    Turned the air down to the bubbler (even further than its normal winter setting) did another water change with filters and pond totally isolated apart from air flow that means the 4" bottom drain slide valve and also blocking 2" return pipe 2 ft down in the pond Brrrrrrr was that cold , with the normal trickle method of the water going back via the water filters Thanks for the heads up @audioenvy Am thinking of sending Spike and Ginger an email but Spike is only as qualified as our health officer who was his BKKS opposite Number when Spike ran the AKCA health site many moons ago now infact this is where we first got to talking with each other sending regular emails throughout the years we've been keeping koi , I have copy of Spike's mate Duncan Griffiths Book Step by Step Advanced koi diagnoses & Treatments and that will be my next port of call to look up gill damage and causes therof
    The wind chill factor at the moment is -2c with the pond at 7c, last night we got as low as -4c last night

    Dave 54
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
    Dave 54, Feb 25, 2018
    #21
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  2. Dave 54

    Tula

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    Dave, did you say the KH was low, with your Health Officer's testing? If so, could this have led to a PH crash ?
     
    Tula, Feb 25, 2018
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  3. Dave 54

    Dave 54

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    @audioenvy no we didnt take a shot of the gills we didn't need too Brian was Spike's opposite number for many years.
    So we have a health officer of his calibre here in Plymouth who is now our very own health officer.
    Many thanx again for the heads up on the gill photo's but I can tell you that they didn't look at all like the photo's your showing me .
    A the moment we are looking into temperature as being the culprit ,it is possible.that we supper chilled the pond somehow
    One thing we have noticed though is the windchill factor coming up the valley , we had -6c a few nights ago

    Dave 54
     
    Dave 54, Feb 28, 2018
    #23
  4. Dave 54

    MitchM

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    Wow Dave, sorry to hear.
    My only thoughts are that something got into the water supply.
    Either your town council flushed the municipal pipes, your chlorine cartridge failed or there was some vandalism.
    I doubt it was temperature because of the large body of water you have plus your pond is not subject to high winds.
    Good luck tracking down the cause.
     
    MitchM, Feb 28, 2018
    #24
  5. Dave 54

    Gemma

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    I lost 1 koi in the fall and even though it was only 2yrs old,I'm still so hurt about it! I can't imagine what you must be going through
    I'm very sorry for your loss @Dave 54 :(
     
    Gemma, Feb 28, 2018
    #25
  6. Dave 54

    audioenvy

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    Yeah, I just posted photos for comparison purposes. I'm glad to hear it was not viral.
     
    audioenvy, Feb 28, 2018
    #26
  7. Dave 54

    Dave 54

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    @Tula No the Ph came out as normal the Kh was only slightly under and nothing at all to worry about,
    He picked up that my Ph test kit was out with his own far superior test kits, but otherwise all was well with the pond AS for to much chlorine from the water department I'm afraid not @MichM the chlorine removal cannister's are all brand new my friend@Gemma thankyou for your kind thoughts .
    We will get to the bottom of it eventually .

    Dave 54
     
    Dave 54, Mar 1, 2018
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  8. Dave 54

    Dave 54

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    @Tula At the moment It's looking like the pond became super chilled during all our winter weather and this may well have taken out nearly all our koi.
    I'll have to run this via our health official but the temperatures with and easterly wind blowing at night up through our passageway and out round the back all came back with a minus before them which came as some surprise to us as did our water temperature taken by the pool/pond thermometer , which did not agree with our hand held K<moon GM300 infrared Laser Thermometer with a temperature range of -50c ~ 420c (-58f ~ 788f which when we took our temperature readings on the pond disagreed with each other by almost 4c .
    At the moment though its only a theory but we may well be right here .

    Dave 54
     
    Dave 54, Mar 8, 2018
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  9. Dave 54

    j.w I Love my Goldies

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    If you are right @Dave 54 will you have to put heaters in the water or cover you pond like @callingcolleen1 does w/hers?
    Maybe only when a really deep freeze hits? Otherwise how do you prevent something like this from happening?
     
    j.w, Mar 8, 2018
    #29
  10. Dave 54

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    according to our top expert here, your water can't possibly have been super-cooled (I think this term is being misused, the more I read and hear it. I think you just mean that the water temp got lower than usual, lower than the fish could handle). And also according to her, koi are much hardier than goldfish and you shouldn't have lost any. But then, I have neither heaters, flowing water, koi nor an indoor situation and my fragile goldfish have made it for 7 years in weather harsher than yours (temps in December were below 0 F for a week).

    Seems some top experts need to be exported to the UK so they can fix your problem, Dave.

    Sorry for your loss and I'm being hugely sarcastic because all your issues fly in the face of what one top expert seems to think and propagate. Actually, I bet our top expert will tell you you SHOULD have running water and heaters all winter, which would indeed have helped.
     
    brokensword, Mar 8, 2018
    #30
  11. Dave 54

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    First of all I am very sorry to hear you lost your biggest oldest koi. Its beyond tragic and I feel very bad for you.
    Second, you can rule out super chilled pond water as that is just not possible unless your whole pond was filled with super pure distilled water. No such thing as super chilled pond water and my fish are all very fine and alive with my water temp reading at plus 1 C. It is always that cold even with the one heater as that heater can barely keep the ice at bay with the very large water volume I have.
    Third, your fish gills are proof that they are damaged from breathing too much toxic gases and not enough clean oxygen. I have seen that many times with other peoples fish in winter that were simply choked to death slowly...

    When the largest oldest fish show up dead first, they ran out of oxygen. I hear you had a bad winter storm and I know you cover the pond and with the snow on top that could have blocked out all the air. I keep my ponds running since 1991 and never had super chilled water and never lost a fish. Fish live very well under the Niagara falls, in Canada. Niagara falls is the worlds largest volume of water that falls down a very deep drop, and has only frozen over once, that I know of, when the weather was very very cold one year, and it usually never freezes as the water flow is very large and that water is not super chilled and there is a great abundance of many different kinds of fish living right under the water fall. Look it up if you don't believe me.

    I hear lots of people in my town lost their fish as well this year. It was a tough winter and they relied on pond heater and a air pump, but the air pump stopped working when water moisture inside the tubing condensate and froze.

    My pumps all running and fish are doing very well in ice cold running water. It is best to run a pump and good filter under the water as running water best removes the toxic gases and brings with it fresh ice cold oxygen rich air.
    .Not to be rude but honestly what does your vet know about super chilled water??? What does he know about wintering Koi? Does he winter Koi for 27 years in Ice Cold water like me? Do any of these experts that all live in much warmer climates even know about wintering Koi or Goldfish when they all live down south with their very expensive Koi? I have proven my method works time and time again. Koi are also living in the Great Lakes and probally in the Niagra Falls as well,cause if they are in the Great Lakes then they are most likely below the falls as well. People let them go when they are tired of keeping them. Koi are Cold Water fish and like I have proven on my U Tube Channel, do very well in ice cold running water as well.
    Wishing you and Val all the best and again very sorry about your beloved Koi.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
    callingcolleen1, Mar 9, 2018
    #31
  12. Dave 54

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    you are rude and disrespectful. You should be reported.

    My fish have lived outside in minus 40 and below in Canada since 1991 and my water is always ice cold and barely at 1 degree Celsius. Never had super chilled water and fish never died off either. My method is a proven method that I have used since 1991 and I laughed at the experts try to tell me that the water could be super chilled. YOU Have not done your research or you would know that water can only be super chilled with pure water like distilled water or in a Laboratory or high above earth in the atmosphere. Please explain to me why the worlds largest volume water fall in Canada does not get super chilled water and how come the fishing is so good there and the fish do so well right under the worlds largest water fall in ice cold Canada???

    You have much to learn, and you could learn off me as I have wintered my fish outside in ice cold Canada for 27 years now. Do not ridicule me as my method works very well. Dave is in England and it was only minus 6 Celsius, and I don't even bother to heat my pond at only minus 6 Celsius cause that is really not cold enough to bother with a heater. Nobody there in England really knows about wintering koi in Minus 40 below Celsius as they don't get even near that cold.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
    callingcolleen1, Mar 9, 2018
    #32
  13. Dave 54

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    I am going to put an end to everybody on this forum scaring people into thinking their pond water can be "super chilled" Put some of your pond water into a bottle and place in the freezer. See if you can create this with your pond water. You cannot!! You need pure water... Listen and learn and please quit scaring people into believing that their pond water can be supper chilled. You can only do this with PURE WATER which you do not have in your ponds...


    I do not heat my ponds unless the temps fall below minus 10 Celsius. My ponds always are just barely above freezing at barely 1 degree Celsius. Never have I ever had super chilled pond water. Water flows very well all winter in my ponds and my fish are ALWAYS FINE !
     
    callingcolleen1, Mar 9, 2018
    #33
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  14. Dave 54

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    @brokensword ... you can now say "sorry" as I have proven that pond water cannot be super chilled and quit being rude. I have much knowledge after successfully wintering my ponds for 27 years in Canada. I know what I am talking about and have a tired and proven method of wintering ponds that has NEVER failed me!

    NO SUCH THING AS SUPER CHILLED WATER ON PLANET EARTH!!!! You HAVE to HAVE PURE WATER which does not naturally occur on planet earth. It can be achieved in the atmosphere as that water is PURE.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
    callingcolleen1, Mar 9, 2018
    #34
  15. Dave 54

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    you can come down now off your high horse, Top Expert; I already said Dave should have had a lot of running water and heaters, just like you, so his 'hardier than goldfish' could survive.

    The rudeness is in thinking you're the expert here, when many many people have told you science works the same on your pond as ours, and others besides yourself have kept fish alive over winter without any of your methods. You try to liken your weather with that in MY state, the same state Angela is in, and think your way is the ONLY way. Stop standing on your soapbox proclaiming how expert you are, how many years you've done this, and how other methods are rubbish (go and search and count how MANY times you've said this) and listen to what others have done in cold weather. Remember, in this thread, it wasn't me who claimed the water was super-cooled. Your beef isn't with me; I even told Dave his water couldn't be super-cooled, didn't I?

    You shouldn't be so insecure because I'm actually telling people now to do it the Top Expert way. Should make you happy.

    And in all this, I do believe the cold is what harmed the fish, here. I was just surprised because I was told by a top expert that koi are hardier than goldfish. If Dave's pond did not ice all the way down, seems the koi still didn't handle the colder-than-usual temps he experienced. I don't think low oxygenation occurred, but maybe Dave can testify as to the O2 levels when he tested afterwards?
     
    brokensword, Mar 9, 2018
    #35
  16. Dave 54

    snoozer

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    You can super cool beer. Would that be considered pure?
     
    snoozer, Mar 9, 2018
    #36
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  17. Dave 54

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    before or after consumption, snoozer?
     
    brokensword, Mar 9, 2018
    #37
  18. Dave 54

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    You come off as very rude. Daves fish have burnt gills from breathing in too much gases.
     
    callingcolleen1, Mar 9, 2018
    #38
  19. Dave 54

    brokensword Not all those who wander are lost

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    read post #23 again as that's not what Dave has reported.
     
    brokensword, Mar 9, 2018
    #39
  20. Dave 54

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    Yes. Beer is distilled so it is pure and @brokensword can use one about now to chill off and try being nice
     
    callingcolleen1, Mar 9, 2018
    #40
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