Winter’s Effect On Koi, Goldfish, and Ponds by Richard E. Carlson

Meyer Jordan

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Arguing for the sake of arguing... Nitrosomonas bacteria is not the same as Nitrifying bacteria and they can survive different temperature ranges is what is sounds like in those two statements.

Where did you read that?

Nitrosomonas is a nitrifying bacteria along with Nitrospira, Nitrobacter, Nitrospina, Nitrosococcus, and Nitrotoga among others. Each has its preference of temperature. Some continue to oxidize at a temperatures of 5C, Nitrotoga as low as 1C.
 
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Where did you read that?

Nitrosomonas is a nitrifying bacteria along with Nitrospira, Nitrobacter, Nitrospina, Nitrosococcus, and Nitrotoga among others. Each has its preference of temperature. Some continue to oxidize at a temperatures of 5C, Nitrotoga as low as 1C.

Well that's interesting then.. may be he believes that most of the Ammonia to nitrites stop at 62F and most nitrites to nitrates at 55F? I wont claim knowledge of these types of bacteria... that's just how i read what he said.
 

Meyer Jordan

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Well that's interesting then.. may be he believes that most of the Ammonia to nitrites stop at 62F and most nitrites to nitrates at 55F? I wont claim knowledge of these types of bacteria... that's just how i read what he said.

I actually believe that the author did a 'copy and paste' on much of this article.
The statement concerning bacteria in WWTP (Waste Water Treatment Plants) is correct. These facilities must be able to operate year-round. The simple fact that they are able to do this proves that nitrifying bacteria function at extremely low temperatures. Granted their efficiency at oxidizing Ammonia and Nitrite is greatly reduced but they will still function at 5% to 20% efficiency at temperatures as low as 5C.
This chart displays how this is fairly constant regardless of environment.
Nitrification effect of temperature.jpg

Considering the fact that Ammonia production is also severely reduced at these temperatures Ammonia and Nitrite build-up is not likely to occur.
 

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I actually believe that the author did a 'copy and paste' on much of this article.
The statement concerning bacteria in WWTP (Waste Water Treatment Plants) is correct. These facilities must be able to operate year-round. The simple fact that they are able to do this proves that nitrifying bacteria function at extremely low temperatures. Granted their efficiency at oxidizing Ammonia and Nitrite is greatly reduced but they will still function at 5% to 20% efficiency at temperatures as low as 5C.
This chart displays how this is fairly constant regardless of environment.
View attachment 95792
Considering the fact that Ammonia production is also severely reduced at these temperatures Ammonia and Nitrite build-up is not likely to occur.


Kind of what I've just believed all along, the processes may be ongoing but they have slowed to such a degree that they're chances of hitting harmful levels is greatly diminished. No scientific evidence to back it up, just a gut feeling I've had since having my pond. Biggest issue for me is lack of oxygen if my fish loads were too high going into winter.
 
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While most of the denitrifaction bacteria poop-out in the cold water, other bacteria like anaerobic bacteria can and do continue to digest wastes and release both methane and hydrogen sulphide gasses which can be very toxic to life. That's the reason the sludge we scoop out in the spring stinks so bad.
denitrifcating bacteria tend to follow these kinetics;
P = 0.25T^2,
P = Percent of denitrifying bacteria growth rate at 20°C,
T = Temperature, °C
so at minimum water temperature at the bottom, 4°C the bacteria would, be working at 1%, I don't buy the idea the bacteria "die" at any particular low temperature, they just go into near dormancy; some reactivate faster than others and have different kinetics.
 

Meyer Jordan

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While most of the denitrifaction bacteria poop-out in the cold water, other bacteria like anaerobic bacteria can and do continue to digest wastes and release both methane and hydrogen sulphide gasses which can be very toxic to life. That's the reason the sludge we scoop out in the spring stinks so bad.
denitrifcating bacteria tend to follow these kinetics;
P = 0.25T^2,
P = Percent of denitrifying bacteria growth rate at 20°C,
T = Temperature, °C
so at minimum water temperature at the bottom, 4°C the bacteria would, be working at 1%, I don't buy the idea the bacteria "die" at any particular low temperature, they just go into near dormancy; some reactivate faster than others and have different kinetics.

I think that you meant to say nitrifying bacteria. Denitrification is the reduction of Nitrate.

Where did you find that formula?
 
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I think that you meant to say nitrifying bacteria. Denitrification is the reduction of Nitrate.

Where did you find that formula?
page 16 (44/178)
Biological Nitrate Removal Pretreatment for a Drinking Water Application
Prepared by: Mark Lichtwardt
Burns & McDonnell Engineering Company, Inc., 9785 Maroon Circle, Suite 400
Centennial, CO 80112-5919
and
Bud Hart
City of Thornton, 9500 Civic Center Drive, Thornton, CO 80229-4326
http://www.waterrf.org/publicreportlibrary/4202.pdf It is about Denitrifing not Nitrifying, specificaly bacteria that break down nitrates to build aminoacids for growth, Facultative anaerobic bacteria, I was looking into http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/anoxic_filtration.html anoxic filtration/biocenosis baskets when I stumbled across it. While its not about the aerobic nitrifying bacteria, my suspicion is the kinetics would be pretty close.
 

Meyer Jordan

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page 16 (44/178)
Biological Nitrate Removal Pretreatment for a Drinking Water Application
Prepared by: Mark Lichtwardt
Burns & McDonnell Engineering Company, Inc., 9785 Maroon Circle, Suite 400
Centennial, CO 80112-5919
and
Bud Hart
City of Thornton, 9500 Civic Center Drive, Thornton, CO 80229-4326
http://www.waterrf.org/publicreportlibrary/4202.pdf It is about Denitrifing not Nitrifying, specificaly bacteria that break down nitrates to build aminoacids for growth, Facultative anaerobic bacteria, I was looking into http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/anoxic_filtration.html anoxic filtration/biocenosis baskets when I stumbled across it. While its not about the aerobic nitrifying bacteria, my suspicion is the kinetics would be pretty close.

Thanks for the link. I have added it to my library and will enjoy reading it.
The application of that formula to the effect of temperature on the growth of nitrifying bacteria is 'Iffy'. One is dealing with to distinct types of bacteria: aerobic and heterotrophic (some are facultative). Even within the group of aerobic nitrifiers, there is a considerable range of response to temperature with Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas showing very little growth at 5C and others, such as Nitrotoga showing a healthy growth at the same temperature. Some nitrifiers that have adapted to lower temperatures have actually exhibited growth at -5C.
ww.int-res.com/abstracts/meps/v21/
Jones, R. D., Morita, R. Y.
Low-temperature growth and whole-cell kinetics of a marine ammonium oxidizer

As a result while this formula may be useful when dealing with anaerobic denitrification it would have very limited, if any, practical use when applied to aerobic nitrifiers.
 

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