Algae growth, day vs night

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My pond is behaving a little differently so far this year than it was last year. Last year the water was not as mechanically clean but I did not have much algae growth, just a light cover on the liner. This year I have a heavy layer of carpet algae on the liner, and I also get the string algae growing off of nearly everything.... The plants, the pots, the hoses, etc. I imagine my BB's reduced significantly over the MI Winter but I would think they would have reestablished by now and should be out competing the algae. I've also noticed that when I get home from work in the evening, the algae is at its worst. I usually net out what is floating, but a lot remains attached to items in the pond. When I go out there in the morning, what was left there the following evening is almost completely gone. I imagine it has to do with Sun light? Maybe my pond needs more shade?
 
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How many fish do you have? However many, they are bigger than they were last year, and are making more algae food. The fish are eating the algae during the night. If they don't do so during the day, you are probably feeding them a bit much. A thick layer of carpet algae is good, but I only get string algae were the fish can't go. I pull that, take a shears and cut it into short pieces and toss it to the happy fish. They find it hard to eat long loose strands since string algae is pretty tough. The stuff that is attached to a surface, they get by grabbing and yanking.

Algae growth has little to do with shade. It grows in indoor aquariums with room light. Complete darkness will wipe it out, but it grows in light that is too weak to keep shade plants growing.
 
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I have about 30 fish in around 1300 gallons. I guess that is fairly heavily stocked but most of the fish are 4" or less. i usually feed them daily. as much as they will gobble up in a minute or less. Never more. some days I skip. Maybe I need more floating plants? The ones I bought recently are still small but their roots are HUGE!
 

crsublette

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dieselplower said:
My pond is behaving a little differently so far this year than it was last year. Last year the water was not as mechanically clean but I did not have much algae growth, just a light cover on the liner. This year I have a heavy layer of carpet algae on the liner, and I also get the string algae growing off of nearly everything.... The plants, the pots, the hoses, etc. I imagine my BB's reduced significantly over the MI Winter but I would think they would have reestablished by now and should be out competing the algae. I've also noticed that when I get home from work in the evening, the algae is at its worst. I usually net out what is floating, but a lot remains attached to items in the pond. When I go out there in the morning, what was left there the following evening is almost completely gone. I imagine it has to do with Sun light? Maybe my pond needs more shade?
Sure, it could be all of those, and also including what Shadako said about the fish's growth and the fish consuming more food, which causes the fish to produce more food for the algae.

Yep, the pond needing more shade could be part of it; if it is something that is doable, then I would install a small awning of some sort over the pond. I mainly say this due to indoor aquariums, with thier controlled light spectrum, generally do not have as a heavy algae issue, that is of different species, and this allows them to use dipottasium phosphate as a buffer without the concern of very heavy algae presence to the extent that we battle in our ponds. I think, in this regard of light and algae, we can learn quite a bit from the aquarium hobby about the types of light spectrums and suns influence on algae. I know folk generally also try to keep their aquariums away from windows as well to help reduce that particular spectrum of light interacting with the water.

As far as BB's (beneficial bacteria for folk that don't know) starving algae, without plants, I think this is only half true since alge blooms still do occur, which indicates to me the pond's turn over rate and pond aeration makes a difference and the particular bacteria species we grow only consume particular nutrients to a particular level. I have often seen increase bio-filtration reduce algae, except not entirely preventing it. As far as I understand it, heterotroph bacteria consume particular nutrients such as organics, phosphates, nitrates, and other trace minerals much better than autotroph bacteria, and autotroph bacteria consumes the inorganic chemicals, that is ammonia and nitrite, better than heterotroph bacteria. The typical bio-filter we setup is typically in a highly aerobic environment, which benefits the autotrophs and is slightly more harmful to the heterotrophs, but there are aerobic heterotroph bacteria, that act in a dimorphic state, competing with space on the surface area with autotroph bacteria and, since autotroph bacteria is organic, these dimorphic heterotrophs can consume the autotroph bacteria as food when the autotrophs die. However, these dimorphic aerobic heterotrophs can not survive too well in very highly oxygenated environments. So, there is always this battle for space on the surface area between autotrophs and heterotroph, but, if the bio-filter is properly built to be highly oxygenated, then this encourages the autotroph bacteria to ultimately win, although there will always be some presence of the heterotrophs. So, the bio-filter construction is extremely important and different bio-filters provide different environments. I have only seen increased mechanized bio-filters reduce algae's presence, but, by itself without plants, I have never seen it completely prevent algae from appearing nor growing.

Now, there are algae's that are bacterial algae's, which grow from a bacteria spore, that then, once allowed to settle in stagnant water (such as behind an object or in a crevice), grows to the extent that it can establish self nitrogen fixing processes. "Self nitrogen fixing" essentially means the algae just needs the very basic necessities, such as oxygen, inorganic carbons, trace minerals, and a spectrum of light, to produce its own food. I think the stagnant water and trace minerals is where we must focus if we want to try to reduce this algae's presence. So, increase the pond's water currents, turn over rate, and increase bio-filtration with multiple bio-filtration types including plants. The plants and increased bio-filtration will allow more different species of bacteria to grow so to further reduce the trace minerals. To attack the algae's bacteria spores, then we must implement an oxidizer or microbicides (which is like an aquatic herbicide) or UV sterilizer or bacterial anti-biotic for that specie of bacteria algae.

I think what is important about algae is how we view algae's role, that is of a bio-filter, food, and a noxious weed. It is nice to have it as a bio-filter when the fish toxic nitrogens accumulate. It is nice to have it during the winter as a food for the fish. However, since most folk have ponds for their own luxury and not a luxury for their fish, then algae should be viewed as a noxious weed. As with any prevention of a noxious weed or plant, proper prevention management practices work with nature, not against nature, and should be followed, which I believe prevention involves everything I listed above.

Notice all the qualifiers I am using here. This is just me thinking out loud my best guess.
 

HTH

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Well put Charles. When I first seen DP's question I was overpowered by all the possibilities. You did a great job of addressing them.

I think it would be helpful DP if you tested for nitrates. Not that nitrates alone could be causing the problem but that other things accumulate in step with it.


shakaho
Algae growth has little to do with shade. It grows in indoor aquariums with room light. Complete darkness will wipe it out, but it grows in light that is too weak to keep shade plants growing.
There are many types of algae. I am not sure if one should make such a sweeping statement.
 
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HTH said:
Well put Charles. When I first seen DP's question I was overpowered by all the possibilities. You did a great job of addressing them.

I think it would be helpful DP if you tested for nitrates. Not that nitrates alone could be causing the problem but that other things accumulate in step with it.

shakaho
There are many types of algae. I am not sure if one should make such a sweeping statement.
Yes, there are many types of algae. Light levels will select for the algae that prefer that light level, just as nutrient levels will select for the algae that need the available nutrients. I have a pond in such deep shade that I can only grow houseplants in the filter, and I have one that gets hours a day of full subtropical sun. The algae on the liners may not all be the same species, but the thickness of the layer is not noticeably different.
 

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shakaho said:
Yes, there are many types of algae. Light levels will select for the algae that prefer that light level, just as nutrient levels will select for the algae that need the available nutrients. I have a pond in such deep shade that I can only grow houseplants in the filter, and I have one that gets hours a day of full subtropical sun. The algae on the liners may not all be the same species, but the thickness of the layer is not noticeably different.
It would seem reasonable to suggest also that the thickness of algae is determined by species as well. I have never seen carpet algae get as thick as a string algae nor have not seen the brown dust algae on aquatic plant roots get as thick as carpet algae. I definitely can be wrong, but I have never seen the brown dust aquatic plant root algae fill up a pond like a string algae can accomplish.
 

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Honestly, I think controlling the light spectrum in an outdoor pond is almost pointless, due to too many unforeseen variables that can occur in a complete outdoor environment. It would not be the control variable where I would disignate the majority of my effort. So, I would more particularly focus on a combination of various mechanize bio-filtration construction and plant approach, spore eradication, pond aeration, and water circulation.

In a more general context, the point does still stand that the light spectrum helps to determine the algae species. Now, does a shade tarp effectively filter the right light spectrum to make a difference in an outdoor pond context?? I would say the efficacy rating is quite low, but I would still try it after doing everything else I mentioned above, that is if it does not interfere with the plants the pond owner wants to grow.

For folk that may know, please do add to the discussion. It would be quite an interest to everyone to know of any practical application of the light control varaiable, such as a particular shade awning capable of filtering out specific spectrums that would help. As some would suggest otherwise, I don't know everything!! ;)
 

HTH

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dieselplower said:
My nitrate is 0 using the API test kit.
The last time someone told me that they were testing for nitrites and not nitrates. It could be that you have enough algae going to drive the nitrates down to where they are undetectable.

You could add more plants but it is often not piratical. The ladies have recommend peroxide, I can never remember which of them said what (need to work on that). I think if you check back it was said that too much would cause problems for the lilies and gave a suggested dose.
 
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I assure you the box says nitrate. Aka NO3-. I can post a picture of it if need be. Thanks for the additional advice. My hyiacinth is growing like crazy and the lettuce is doing well also. Hopefully they will start out eating the algae.
 
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crsublette said:
It would seem reasonable to suggest also that the thickness of algae is determined by species as well. I have never seen carpet algae get as thick as a string algae nor have not seen the brown dust algae on aquatic plant roots get as thick as carpet algae. I definitely can be wrong, but I have never seen the brown dust aquatic plant root algae fill up a pond like a string algae can accomplish.
I was talking only about the thickness of the carpet algae, which is sort of talking about "lawn grass." Neither carpet algae nor string algae nor green water algae are made up a single species nor mere hundreds of species. Each term just refers to their "life style". The carpet algae in one of my ponds will probably contain a similar collection of species as in another of my ponds, but the relative frequency of the different species may differ because of different light levels, temperature, different plants, fish, tadpoles, etc in the ponds. However, the carpet algae in Diesel's pond would probably be mostly different species (or at least subspecies) from those in my ponds and if we could trade pond liners, a lot of each biofilm would die off. Just like his lawn grass would die in FL and mine would die in MI.

What is "brown dust aquatic plant root algae?"
 

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shakaho said:
I was talking only about the thickness of the carpet algae, which is sort of talking about "lawn grass." Neither carpet algae nor string algae nor green water algae are made up a single species nor mere hundreds of species. Each term just refers to their "life style". The carpet algae in one of my ponds will probably contain a similar collection of species as in another of my ponds, but the relative frequency of the different species may differ because of different light levels, temperature, different plants, fish, tadpoles, etc in the ponds. However, the carpet algae in Diesel's pond would probably be mostly different species (or at least subspecies) from those in my ponds and if we could trade pond liners, a lot of each biofilm would die off. Just like his lawn grass would die in FL and mine would die in MI.

1) What is "brown dust aquatic plant root algae?"
Fair enough.


1) What is "brown dust aquatic plant root algae?"

Obviously, that's my nick name for it. I don't know the proper nomenclature for it. It is the algae I quite often see live on aquatic plant roots, the algae is brown and falls apart like dust, and there are particular plants' roots, such as parrot feather (when allowed to float) and Azola, where I see it thrive most often.
 

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