Carpet/Foam for Underlayment

[falconut]

New to the boards. I'm looking to do a small pond in my backyard in the next month or so. I have a 10' x 15' liner, pump and filter that were given to me. It's going to be in the 8-9' long x 3-4' wide range. I'm trying to determine if I want to try indoor - outdoor carpet for the underlayment.

If I use the carpet, does it go carpet side up or down? I've been researching like crazy, but can't find what side goes up or down. I would assume carpet side up so the soft side touches the liner, but not sure. The carpet I have isn't the hard abrasive stuff, it feels like the soft indoor type.

I also have foam that is used for pools. I used it for an underlayment between the metal walls and the liner. I wonder if this stuff would be better to use?

I'm trying to utilize some of the stuff I've got on hand before I look to buy something.

 

[sissy]

not sure on the carpet but would think that if it is soft on both sides it would not matter .I know a few here that used the padding but I used landscape fabric that some one threw a big roll out at the dump .Padding is padding and as long as it is under there to keep rocks from coming through it should not matter .it is going to rot any ways .I know people who go to the carpets stores and ask to get some from there dumpsters .But harder to find places these days because most carpet is recycled

 

[falconut]

I'm not sure if the carpet is soft on both sides. The bottom is the typical feel of the underneath of a carpet, I wouldn't call it soft. The top (carpet) side is definitely softer. It's been outside for 3 years and looks like it did when it was new. So, it'll probably take a while to rot away, if ever.

sissy - you said you used landscape fabric? Are you talking about the thin fabric sold on rolls to put under mulch? I used this stuff last year and weeds have grown right through it in spots. I wouldn't thick it would do much, but maybe I don't understand how the underlayment works.

The foam I have is similar to this stuff, it's just white and 1/8" thick: http://www.walmart.com/ip/19862027?...1=g&wl2=&wl3=21486607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem

 

[HTH]

What kind of liner is it?

Do you have rocks?

Iff you have EPDM and no rocks you can put the liner down without underlayment. Just make sure the hole is smooth with no lumps. Trees will not grow through the liner.

 

[sissy]

No the landscape fabric I used was really heavy like the underlayment they use on ponds .I never use that stuff in my gardens ,it restricts water and makes it hard to pull weeds .I ha guessing it is the shrim stuff they use on carpets these day and looks white or grey and is made mostly of a fiberglass and old rugs were made with jute .Some just put down sand .I used sand and then the free underlayment .Anything will work and some like hth says use nothing .I made sure I picked up every thing .

 

[addy1]

My liner did not, technically, need underlayment, but we put it down anyways, our dirt is mainly rocks, shale. The stuff you have will work, it is mainly to keep any rocks you miss from rubbing the bottom, esp if you walk on them and possibly poking through.

to our group

 

[falconut]

From my memory, the liner is 45 mil, don't remember the manuafurer. My soil is sandy, hard packing type with an occational round small rock. I was planning on using some playsand first, then the underlayment, then the liner. I really don't see myself walking in it.

If I go carpet, do I put the rug side up or down?

 

[addy1]

When I used carpet I put the rug side up, I don't think it really matters. The rug side is softer, the main thing you are doing is protecting the liner from rocks etc on the bottom.
I walk in my pond all of the time, we used carpet underlayment for this pond

 

[Waterbug]

For new carpet it doesn't matter which side is up or down. For used carpet I always lay it upside down because there's often broken glass, pins, needles, etc., in the pile.

From the sound of your soil and using 45 mil EPDM I doubt you need any underlayment at all, as HTL said. But if you want some then many things can be used, newpaper, carboard, old blankets, whatever. EPDM is very tough. It doesn't need soft, it just doesn't need pointy things like dead roots, stones.

 

[sissy]

south jersey I know is mostly sand area .Just make sure you make the sides high enough for those heavy rains .A jersey person my self retired here just over 9 years ago .Headed up there in 3 weeks hopefully to AC and stop by my sons house .

 

[falconut]

south jersey I know is mostly sand area .Just make sure you make the sides high enough for those heavy rains .A jersey person my self retired here just over 9 years ago .Headed up there in 3 weeks hopefully to AC and stop by my sons house .

OK, still working on the design of the hole. I assume you're saying to have the sides of the pond above the grade, so no rain runoff flows into the pond? How much higher? About 2 - 3" or should it be higher?

 

[koiguy1969]

The higher the sides the less likely you'll get any run off into the pond. you can raise 6" or so then tapering the grade away from the pond. giving a negative horizon to the ponds edge. so water runs away from the pond not to it. but, proper heigth? this would depend on the grade of the area the ponds in.
oh and on the carpeting.. if its got a brown backing, it may be a jute backing and if it is, it will brake down. jute being a natural plant fiber. white(ish) backings are synthetic (latex) and should hold up much longer. jute backing has been faded out, but if your using old scrap or tearout. you may come across some.

 

[Waterbug]

Decomposed material is still OK, it remains a good underlayment.

However, when it comes time to redo a pond some of these materials can be pain to remove. After carpet backing breaks down you're left with lots of little bits of loose pile. Carpet padding, the kind with the little multi-color chunks of foam that are glued together, the glue breaks down and you have lots of little chunks. Can be dealt with, but still a pain.

 

[falconut]

I'm leaning towards using the pool foam instead of the old carpet. I've still got half a roll and it should form to the hole easier. I felt it last night and it should do a good job at protecting the underside of the liner even being on 1/8" thick.

 

[sissy]

mostly all you need it on is the bottom ,you want be walking on the sides of the pond .I used the free stuff because I knew it was no good for anything else .Not sure where you are at in south jersey but I know there are flood areas .I have friend Bridget who lives in Brick NJ and my sons lives in Keansburg Nj and they have a high water table so when it rains nothing drains right.Then you get that rotten egg smell .I also have an uncle in Sandy Hook and remember there are lots of bird predators also down there