Community Pond - What to do?

[RivieraKoi]

We have a 30' x 90' landlocked pond. About 6 years ago we added Koi, Comets, Shubunkins (I know that's wrong) and a few catfish. Two of the Koi have reached appx 25" as did two of the catfish. Up until this summer we thought only two of the catfish survived and were not breeding...we were wrong. So this year we removed the two largest and about 7 smaller ones and relocated them where they can be happy and grow as large as they want. I'm sure there are still more and the culling will continue.

As of now, and excluding any catfish yet to be removed, there are 100s of fish, but none larger than about 3". WHY?

Secondly, should we be introducing anything else into the environment? My fear is that there are so many fish there isn't enough food to allow them to grow.

 

[addy1]

Welcome to our group!

If it was mine, I would not add any more fish. The bunch of little ones were probably from a good spawn last year.(guessing) The ##'s of fish will balance out if you don't feed them, they will eat the eggs etc. I assume the pond has vegetation etc in it, or have the fish managed to eat all of it and it is naked now i.e no vegetation.

You could try to net some out if you want, sale, give away etc.

If you want to help the fish grow in size you could start feeding, but that would also help more fry survive.

 

[dieselplower]

I assume you are asking if you should introduce anything that eats fish? I guess if it is local anyway, why not? Maybe some turtles or bulldog? Maybe a honeybadger... They don't care!

 

[Jason]

I assume you are asking if you should introduce anything that eats fish? I guess if it is local anyway, why not? Maybe some turtles or bulldog? Maybe a honeybadger... They don't care!

 

[don't ask]

Welcome, I will assume like Addy, that things will balance itself out.. Concern or worry would be if you started seeing fish belly up and floating..Bullfrogs and frogs in general should have already found that pond, but if it's very large those predators may still have a hard time keeping up with their buffet. Just as in a smaller home pond there are almost always going to be survivors. vegetation is their friend for both the fish and the predators... snapping turtles may have already found the pond too, maybe even native snakes, no way to know for sure i guess until you see them.... oh adding something like game fish, bass etc. would do it too as long as they are not larger than what you want to keep

 

[RivieraKoi]

Thanks for all of the advice. I'll have to send a pic of our pond. There is no vegitation above water level. It had become surrounded by cattails to the point were about 33% of the pond was overrun with them. The large catfish and 7 smaller ones (9-12") are gone but a few small ones remain. I'm sure we will not be able to eridacate all of them and they do serve a purpose by eating those that don't make it through the winter. In fact, in 8 years I've only seen 3 Koi/Comets belly up! The pond is really a retention basin with a fountain added as an architectural element...so say the Realtors...since no one want's a retention basin right outside the front door of the club house!!! I thought about adding sunfish, to keep the population of koi and comets in check, but there's always the possibility that the sunfish will also become too numerous, then I need something to eat them and etc and etc and etc. Yes there are bullfrogs, but I have not seen any snakes or snapping turtles to date. Herons are not a problem to a great extent since, if they step in, it's about 2 - 3' deep. (Also never seen a duck or a goose in the pond either! Very strange!) I do not feed the koi and comets. The don't appear to need it and I don't want to add to the probelem. I just don't understand why there's nothing bigger than about 4" out of hundreds of fish. You would think that SOME would grow! Does anyone have any suggestions about how to net or trap the fry? I hate to do it, but....

 

[JohnHuff]

Start selling them! Methinks you have a second job as the largest ornamental fish distributor in SE PA.

 

[don't ask]

my only assumption would be that what gets blown or caught into the pond for the fish to possibly eat is not but so much.... although they can and have been, feeding off of just algae would not enhance their growth as feeding them more bulk, like pellets..... or there are other predators that are eating them as they get bigger...perhaps smaller fish are harder to find? or you just haven't been able to catch the larger ones at the right time? by the way welcome fellow pennsylvanian...where abouts in SE P.A.?

 

[RivieraKoi]

Concord Township right on the DE border! I'll be out your way next week for the 150th Gb!

 

[don't ask]

cool... a hop, skip and jump to the ocean

 

[CountryEscape]

I always heard if a person stocked their new pond with too many bass, bluegill and sunfish, they would never grow, because there would not be enough vegetation to support them. Wondering if the first few years your fish spawned and multiplied, and since there was such a large area for them to be in, they didn't eat the eggs and fry, probably had something to eat initially. Now, there are hundreds of fish, no more vegetation (what did you do with the cattails, BTW???), and they are in a growth slump. I've been to ponds where the owner would say, "Anything you catch, throw on the bank, no matter the size. We have too many fish." Maybe try feeding them. I know you don't want to add more fish to the mix, and Addy is right, if you don't feed them, they will for sure eat the eggs and any possible fry, BUT, if you do feed them, they will grow, and probably be just as likely to eat the eggs and fry. My pond is only 9x19, and I have 7 koi that I got the first year (2 years ago) that are not huge, but grew each year. The fish that I put in last spring don't seem to have grown much in the past year. My thought is that I have too many koi, and they are using up all the food source that is naturally in the pond, even though I feed them once a day, just enough to keep them happy. I have only had 4 babies survive in 2 years time, so they're doing a good job of chowing down on the eggs and fry.

 

[don't ask]

yes i heard about the re-enactment... not sure i will get to see it... hopefully it will cool down some as i get headaches when it's hot and humidy... but you should have a blast

 

[RivieraKoi]

CountryEscape, I have to concur. Just too many fish. I once read somewere that, when breeding koi, you have to be able to cull the fry, selecting only they best to grow to maturity. I would certainly love to remove a LOT of what's in there, but have no idea how to do that..short of using a "Polynesian" throw net and then what to I do with the rejects? The last fish outlet in the area closed last year and I certaily can't release them anywhere! I wouldn't have eliminated the large catfish, but...and I'm serious...they were scaring the crap out of peoples' grandchildren when they brought them to the pond to feed the koi!!!!!!!!! Regarding the catails, we had our landscaper spray them and remove them once they died off. If we didn't, they would have taken over the entire pond by now! As for vegitation, that's a tough one. We tried to grow water lillies, etc but something ate every one!!! So that didn't work. Maybe a small boat, a net, and a hand-cranked generator could help? Hummmm

 

[CountryEscape]

I have often thought about digging a pond for koi, same thing, no overflow to be worried about with fry getting out and into the mainstream. I would want it dug with straight sides to discourage the herons, but maybe I need to let the herons have their way with the smaller koi, and only the smartest will survive! There does need to be a sloped walk out area to seine to, so you have the option of catching the koi for sale or... probably in your case, ... to toss the smaller ones on the beach. I know, it's cruel, but there is no market for hundreds of koi, or at least I don't think there is. Maybe put some ads on Ebay, and see if you get any nibbles. Bad part is that you will have then to have access to oxygen to ship them, and also those styrofoam boxes they get shipped in. Would be more trouble than it's worth if you ask me. Then, if you have any diseases in the fish, people will come hammering down on you for that as well, threaten to sue you, etc. I just don't think it would be worth it. Thus, the reason I've never had a dirt pond dug for any excess koi, either. I only have 4 babies from last year, and we shall see if any survive this year. Four I can handle, probably sell easy enough, but 100??? Nope ... my pond would not support that many babies. I'm personally thankful for any painted turtle, bullfrog or dragonflies that help eat the eggs and fry and keep my numbers down. :blueflower:

 

[RivieraKoi]

FYI - Because our pond is closed ecosystem (read retention basin), with some ground water infiltration, we flood it twice a year from a well to exchange about 1/4 - 1/3 of the water each time. If we didn't, evaporation, chemicalz from the lawn fertilizer and runoff from the roads above and adjacent to the pond, not to mention animal waste and toxins from dead vegetation and fish, would quickly accumulate and poison everything therein!