I feel like Im going in the wrong direction.....


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A nursery is the first place people look for rocks . And find out it's also the most expensive. It's probably t late for your project but for others thinking about building keep your eyes open on new developments or a single home even building an addition MANY builders look for the nearest place to dump such materials. If the trucking to the local nursery or sand and gravel yard is twice the distance but they would get only a few dollars or even get charged to dump there rocks. I was lucky i was the builder and got a ton of rocks. ranging from 2 to 4" 6 to 8" and basketball sized boulder that i used in the bog. and larger boulders for the side walls of the pond.
 
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@Gbbudd2

This stuff?
Thats the stuff i have seen many here use yes. i prefer M1 from my local commercial roofing supplier. But anything from loctite is a good product i have never had any issues with there products. Other then trying to remove a screw i applied locktite to and cursed myself as i fought to get the screw loose.
 
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A nursery is the first place people look for rocks . And find out it's also the most expensive. It's probably t late for your project but for others thinking about building keep your eyes open on new developments or a single home even building an addition MANY builders look for the nearest place to dump such materials. If the trucking to the local nursery or sand and gravel yard is twice the distance but they would get only a few dollars or even get charged to dump there rocks. I was lucky i was the builder and got a ton of rocks. ranging from 2 to 4" 6 to 8" and basketball sized boulder that i used in the bog. and larger boulders for the side walls of the pond.
I didnt buy any boudlers yet. Still pricing them. Good call on the home building sites. Theres several homes being built on a new block around the corner from me. Ill take a walk over and look
 
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I'm in the process of putting the finishing touches on the pond before I put down the liner. But I have a few concerns. First, all of these rocks that are embedded in the soil are impossible to completely get rid of. The base of the pond is relatively clear and I'm going to put down some sand so not really worried about the base. However, the walls have lots of rocks in them (as you can see from the pic) and I can't keep removing them because it keeps removing more wall dirt and shrinking the shelves.

Second, you can see in the picture that I have a tree right behind where the waterfall is. I have maybe three roots roughly 1/4" thick that I have trimmed back flush with the wall. These roots are literally growing horizontal and I'm concerned that they may grow through the liner in time. Is this going to be a problem as well?

I will be using underlayment. Anything else I can use in addition to the underlayment to hopefully prevent these roots from causing a problem before I put the liner?
 

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pondlover

Bogs are good for more than just your pond!
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Old Carpet or pad works great for underlayment.
 
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Old Carpet or pad works great for underlayment.
Yes I've heard that. Should I be adding double or triple layers of underlayment in these areas where I have roots that could potentially grow through my liner? Will multiple layers help?
 
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I got all my rocks for free...........I found a dump site where landscapers dump their leftovers
 
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Concerning the roots. Maybe you can cover that area with something ridgid. Maybe plywood or there's a flooring product that is cement based that is called hardy backer board. It will probably outlast plywood. You can buy it in various thicknesses at hardware stores, Home Depot or Lowe's.
Then a layer of carpet, carpet padding or underlayment. I would make sure I cover the area well beyond where the roots are at this time. They will probably spread out once they hit the board.
 

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The more layers of under-lament because of your rocks the better. If you have it then use it as it can't hurt.
 
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Concerning the roots. Maybe you can cover that area with something ridgid. Maybe plywood or there's a flooring product that is cement based that is called hardy backer board. It will probably outlast plywood. You can buy it in various thicknesses at hardware stores, Home Depot or Lowe's.
Then a layer of carpet, carpet padding or underlayment. I would make sure I cover the area well beyond where the roots are at this time. They will probably spread out once they hit the board.
I like this idea....but at the same time Im intrigued by this post by Waterbug

It certainly couldnt hurt putting up a wall of that backer board (decently priced at home depot) if for nothing else then piece of mind. I just really wonder if its needed. Hmmmmm
 
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addy1

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I dug roots when I put in our pond. Apple tree and maple. 10 years later there has been no damage from them.
 
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That's a very interesting post by waterbug. He makes a lot of sense. I especially like his experiment which he made a pot out of EPDM.
I myself and many people here have had ponds for many years and I've never read or heard of anyone having their liner punctured by a root. The soil in my area has a lot of roots...everywhere. I have dug many holes and there's always plenty to deal with.
So, if you want to play it safe and place a board where there is a rather large root, go ahead for peace of mind. Put it this way, it can't hurt and now is the time to do it. Once it's all built and filled with water, it's not so easy to make an alteration like that.
 
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That's a very interesting post by waterbug. He makes a lot of sense.
The funny thing about that post is this is the very forum he's talking about where he says you will get questionable information from all of us pseudo experts. And I wonder who the "admin" with 15000 posts is that he refers to... :unsure:

I do think he makes good sense though - roots will take the path of least resistance. If they come up against an obstacle they will find a new path. Once you've cut EPDM - yards and yards and yards of it - you realize it takes a sharp blade and an iron will! But there's certainly no harm in taking precautions. Underlayment seems way more reliable than newspaper or cardboard or even backer board... those will all decay or at least grow soft over time. I've also seen pond builders use hardware cloth behind the underlayment for added protection - that was more for preventing tunneling animals from getting to the liner, but it might give you some added security if you're really concerned about roots.
 
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Concerning the roots. Maybe you can cover that area with something ridgid. Maybe plywood or there's a flooring product that is cement based that is called hardy backer board. It will probably outlast plywood. You can buy it in various thicknesses at hardware stores, Home Depot or Lowe's.
Then a layer of carpet, carpet padding or underlayment. I would make sure I cover the area well beyond where the roots are at this time. They will probably spread out once they hit the board.
I found a product when i was building my bog it is a 1/8 fiberglass impregnated with an asphalt very tough stuff. you can get it from a commercial roofing company it is also some what pliable you can certainly make it round but once you have bent it in one direction you wil not be able to bend it in the opposite direction and scarp 90 degree corners are out unless you cut them. it is more forgiving then 1/4 ply wood but similar
i do have a grass in my bog that grows quick and it does have deep roots and at the tip of the root is a very sharp point'. but i was told by the nursery it did not have the strength to puncture. so far he has been correct. But i have thought about lining the bog for the top 24" with azex just to make sure not root could never think about puncturing the epdm
 
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I attached the smaller 5x10 liner to the larger 15x20 liner using the Loctite ps 30. The attached liners are in my basement curing. The smaller liner is to cover the water fall area. I use the word attached very lightly because I dont think this product is actually an adhesive? I put 2, 1/3" beads along the the enitre 6 inch overlap, rolled it with a pvc tube and finger smeared the lip with a bead as well. Im sure there will be no water getting through.

Im just a little concerned with transporting both these liners to the pond. Ill have 2 or 3 people carrying it once its rolled up but does anyone know if this particular sealant acts as an adhesive? Im a little nervous about the bead tearing once we transport it
 
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I guess it depends how well that stuff sticks to the liner material. Just handle it gently. If it comes apart, try gluing it in place so you don't have to move it. Good luck and keep us posted.
I wouldn't trust a seal like that as a seam under water, only for an overlap to keep the flap in place.
 
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Interesting. So this asphalt fiberglass stuff is called azex? NO.... AZEK is basicly a sheet of plastic " in this case 1/4" x4'x8'= close to $100.00 dollars a sheet. That can be used in the pond " fish safe as far as i know.
The fiberglass with asphalt coating "[that you would never use in a pond]" is 1/8" very tough stuff 4'x8' sheet was if memory serves me correctly was only 10 bucks had say sharp jagged rock in your excavation this would be a good buffer to put against the stone then your fabric and rubber.. Once you et water fish and decorations that is the worst times to second guess if something might fail and create a leak
N
 
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Anthony if that seam is planned to be under water I would not trust it that is not meant to be a lap sealant to glue two pieces together if the seam is above water between the bog and the pond and water runs down the upper layer where it is over laps the bottom sheet then yes it is fine for that . or if you are gluing your mounting plate to the skimmer and the caulk if under the rubber between the mold of the skimmer. There are splice kits you can buy to bond two pieces of rubber together for underwater seams.
 

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