Rocks and gravel on the bottom of the pond?

[HTH]

I promise to play nice

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

A small change does not do much to change the concentration of what you are trying to change. It is not so much bad as useless.

If you have muck in you pond and you do not want to let it go natural here is what I would do.

Get get something to keep the fish in for about a day. maybe a fish safe kiddie pool if that is big enough. Others here should know which are and are not. I have seen a lot of people use the hard ones you see all over.
Clean the filter.
Next day
Fill the kiddy pool with pond water.
Move the fish and filter to the kiddie pool
Pump out the water
Pull out the rocks
clean the bottom of the pond with a shop vac or whatever you have on hand
rinse it down (would be good if you could do this with declored or old water, do NOT scrub down the side as you will remove the biobugs
Fill the pond back up adding dechlor
Watch the temp and put the fish and filter back in when they are about equal. Might be the next day
It you have a spare air pump I would use an airstone in the new water while it comes back up to temp. A powerhead or spare water pump will work too. Anything to circulate the water but air would be my first choice. I am a big fan of air. It can keep a pond alive for quite a while even if the filter fails.

Now you have a pond you can maintain.
If you want to be nice to your goldfish or koi monitor the nitrate levels.
Change water to keep the nitrate in check. With some luck you can have plants that help or do that for you.

If you do water change to keep the nitrates in check it will also keep everything else that enters the pond in equal or lesser amounts in check too.

Shipping and some handling of fish is said to depress their immune system. After they have been in the pond a few years the immune system recovers and they become much more robust. An old pond with an established fish population is nearly bullet proof. But a pH crash or the addition of new fish with disease or parasites rapidly wreck it. The pH crash is easy to avoid once you know your water. Adding fish with an unknown history is risky.

It is best to get you fish from fellow ponders.

I try not to encourage birds. No bird baths. As the birds can carry parasites some of which can effect the fish.

I used my daughters pool 3 yrs ago when i relined... I will never remove my rocks, there is at least 3 yards of pea gravel in the 2 of them, and 6000g on water. You are right, i would be more worried it i did all that work to have my fish die when it has been unchanged for years. Ill keep stirring and my routine for now, but if i do need to change my liner or put a bottom drain in, it will try running bare bottom again. On filter side, thoses filter socks work amazing... Piss on pressure canisters. The whole 5 g bucket thing makes sense, but you have no water in it to start. If you change 10% of all pee, of course you will have high levels of pee, youre trying to prevent that.

 

[HTH]

Keep in mind there are several ways that work. Lots that don't. And no single one that I would say is the right way in all cases.

I had forgotten that in about 2000 I wrote a segment on how to figure out how often one needs to change water for goldfish aquariums but the same procedure works for ponds. How to determine how much and how often to change aquarium water. Some of the stuff on that site is dated but still much is interesting.

People who are handy/crafty/bodgers can save a bundle by doing DIY and have fun doing it. People who are not DIY types or lack the time in most cases will be unhappy it they try.

There is no one size fits all.

I was assuming that one started with a 5 gallon bucket of water. Now to add to that full bucket you would have to remove some existing liquid and it all get s kind of messed up. But it illustrates the point.

 

[crsublette]

Yeah, filter socks are an excellent alternative to the expensive sieve screens as well.

If you want a decent retail mechanical polishing pressurized filter, then check out MultiCyclone Centrifugal filters.

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Keep in mind there are several ways that work. Lots that don't. And no single one that I would say is the right way in all cases.

I had forgotten that in about 2000 I wrote a segment on how to figure out how often one needs to change water for goldfish aquariums but the same procedure works for ponds. How to determine how much and how often to change aquarium water. Some of the stuff on that site is dated but still much is interesting.

People who are handy/crafty/bodgers can save a bundle by doing DIY and have fun doing it. People who are not DIY types or lack the time in most cases will be unhappy it they try.

There is no one size fits all.

I was assuming that one started with a 5 gallon bucket of water. Now to add to that full bucket you would have to remove some existing liquid and it all get s kind of messed up. But it illustrates the point.

Ok, now i got some more pond jargian down a little more! I understand if you have a huge pond of an acre it will naturally make its own ecosystem that will take care of itsself. 40-50% wc's (for me) is over kill, way to much money for water, but my question has to do with the volumn. Does massive wc's effect your nitrogen cycle in a pond setting? I would believe, from one hobby to the next, that the nitrogen cycle is exactly the same. You would stall out your "good bacteria" and start seeing a spike of ammonia. Second, if to do that amount of wc, does everyone have big cow tanks to mix up their fresh new water to drop heavy metal and dechlorinizers? And also on this, when you introduce a new fish, you just dont throw it in the water and away you go, right? Small changes to not to stress or effect the new piece added. So this is my question, big wc, may be good to double down your ppm but doesnt this harm the fish? Good read, you put alot of time in on it.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Soon as last frost is past I run a constant drip water feed into my pond, and continue doing this until I shut down the pond in the fall. This does three things automatically, (1) it maintains a constant water level in the pond as the pond is essentially constantly, but very slowly, overflowing. (2) it does a constant slow constant water change. (3) It relieves me of manually doing periodic water changes.
We do have chlorine in our water supply sometimes, but because the water is being added so slowly to the pond the chlorine is neutralized before it can ever get to any harmful, or even detectable levels in the pond.
This system is commonly referred to as trickle water change, it is by far the best way to do water changes.

 

[HTH]

It does not take huge pond. I have one that is about 18 by 45 feet that does fairly well with just air. It is shallow and the water does not really get clear but it is not from algae.

The bio bugs that power the nitrogen cycle attach to surfaces. So changing water has little effect but it can add minerals to the pond and generate an algae bloom.

A few schools of thought on adding the water back.

Once can mix up enough dechlore and dump the dilute mixture into the pond, then add water.

If you only have chlorine and not Chloramines it is possible to set a garden hose on trickle and refill the pond. YMMV on this but it works for some.

On my pond I just toss the hose in running full bore but I point the water stream into the boiling water from the air pump. If I run it into calm water the fish nose up to the hose and burn their gills.

I expect some people will scream about not using dechlore. But chlorine is an oxidizer and in a working pond it is quickly used up by the first organic matter it encounters. If in doubt and esp if you have a pond without much organics in it please use the dechlore.

Regardless of how you do it. Add the water slow enough so as to not shock the fish. The slow fill also takes care of any compressed gas problems with the water.

If pH is a problem add chemicals to adjust it as it fills. Again dilute it first.

Dumping a new fish in your pond is like having sex with someone you just encountered without protection! Don;t do it!
All new fish should be quarantined as far away from the pond as you can manage. Do not share any nets or other tools between the quarantine area and your pond. You can transmit bacteria and virus with your hands so wash up like you were a surgeon after touching stuff in the quarantine area. Sounds extreme? Your fish your risk.

Moving your fish between ponds is not a problem. The stress time is so short it does not seem to bother them.

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

I used to have a 120g tank in my basement for my medic area,that went away. Honestly i hardly bring new fish in, just the ones who drag up from doing ponds. I have been seeing alot of orange colored fish in our local ponds, lakes, and rivers. So yes,(if 2 fish go left unattended in wisconsin they will continue to live.) Ok that was a tangent
Ive noticed that if i introduce an adolesent koi to that medic tank, typically they ram their heads into the tank until i cant handle it! 3 days is about the max for me, and the stink from water in the basement..... I just now do a slime coat dip and put them in. They usually fend off to a section while the others are in close contact. If recieving a new fish i drip acclimate them in and away we go

 

[HTH]

The guy that can go down to the pet shop and replace the fish because they were just fish has little to loose.

The guy with thousands of dollars invested, or the one that has years tied up in breeding has much more to loose..

Most of us fall someplace in the middle. So we all have to figure out what level of risk we want to take.

I should have pointed that out.

About the running into the wall. I think I recall someplace that with a round container they will just follow the walls. Not sure. Can someone verify this.

In the past 10 years I have purchased fish once. They died in quarantine..

People who like to stop by the local fish store and pick up a fish now in then need to have a full time quarantine setup IMHO.

 

[crsublette]

Ok, now i got some more pond jargian down a little more! I understand if you have a huge pond of an acre it will naturally make its own ecosystem that will take care of itsself. 1) 40-50% wc's (for me) is over kill, way to much money for water, but my question has to do with the volumn. 2) Does massive wc's effect your nitrogen cycle in a pond setting? I would believe, from one hobby to the next, that the nitrogen cycle is exactly the same. 3) You would stall out your "good bacteria" and start seeing a spike of ammonia. 4) Second, if to do that amount of wc, does everyone have big cow tanks to mix up their fresh new water to drop heavy metal and dechlorinizers? 5) And also on this, when you introduce a new fish, you just dont throw it in the water and away you go, right? Small changes to not to stress or effect the new piece added. 6) So this is my question, big wc, may be good to double down your ppm but doesnt this harm the fish? Good read, you put alot of time in on it.

1) Cost is the primary reason why most folk don't do it, which is completely understandable, but lets not kid our self about the actual results of small water changes.

2) Nope, does not effect the nitrogen cycle assuming the source water is of decent drinking quality or cleaner.

3) Spikes are due to an entirely inefficient operation or construction of the bio-filter unit itself. Of course, there are limitations to every filter. If your source water contains a very high ppm of ammonia or nitrites, which is essentially not drinking water, then a different source should be sought or implement the appropriate devices to make water changes irrelevant or to clean the source water.

4) Some do, some don't. It is mostly irrelevant if proper instructions are followed.

5) Big water changes are only conducted at once if the carbonate, pH, and temperature parameters are in close proximity to the pond water. Otherwise, performing the big water change over a period of time removes the risk of stressful swings created by the new water.

6) Correct, if proper procedures are followed, then big water changes do not harm the fish.

 

[Tradewinds]

I just finished removing about a yard of small rocks and gravel from the bottom of my pond. Besides being back breaking work, that stuff was nasty! :faint:

 

[HTH]

I just finished removing about a yard of small rocks and gravel from the bottom of my pond. Besides being back breaking work, that stuff was nasty! :faint:

Which is why I can't stand the sight of it.

 

[j.w]

I did that too once in a bathtub pond and it was awful and glad I never did that to my big pond!

 

[David604]

Hi Everyone, I'm a new here. I'll try to be succinct. I jumped into having saltwater aquarium and did very well at it. Fast forward to the future, I now live in San Diego and bought a house with a koi fish pond, in fact two ponds connected by a higher "moat". Shortly after moving in the 3 Koi died. I think I know why(cleaned pump incorrectly triggering auto fill to run tap water too long; that's now disabled). Then I started reading to learn and ordered things I would need. All water tests were looking great and so I felt it was time to add three more Koi(also have a turtle). Everything was going swimmingly and then shortly after in the morning we found one had died(I think that was due to using rainwater from barrels that was too old or had chemicals from the roof; wont do that again, but don't know for sure. I got the other two evacuated and placed in a holding tank. Finally got some people out to do a reset. Found out what I thought was two very shallow pounds were actually about half full of gravel and rock and are quite deep. Had it all pulled out along with all the muck. It smelled like sewage. Both ponds were then thoroughly cleaned and now liner only except for the moat has rocks. I'm also adding a proper filter and UV light. Been reading tonight about the somewhat extreme debate on rocks/gravel vs liner. I love the hobby and don't want to lose any more fish. Also, found we have a 2nd turtle and just couldn't see through the soup. Tons of surrounding plants with root systems. Initially tonight I thought I might be making a mistake, but now feel like I'm on the right path.

 

[audioenvy]

Nice work! I know there are some folks who manage to keep the rocks and gravel at the bottom of the pond clean and muck free but in my case the pond in the back yard of the home we purchased had laid dormant and unattended for so long it was full of dirt and weeds and such. The rocks were not the problem per se but I couldn't remove that stuff without also removing the rocks. Sounds like you've done the same. Best wishes and if you have any photos be sure to share!