stuck in green stage?

[Waterbug]

question though beneficial bacteria- i was following aquascapes instructions to add a scoop when u fill the pond then two weeks later, which i did. should i keep doing this for the rest of the summer?

Absolutely keep adding it...it's good for their bottom line. Every manufacturer, retailer and pond professional selling bacteria in a bottle will tell you it's needed or helpful.

There was a study, like in the 1970's I think, which kicked this all off that showed adding bacteria did have benefits. However a bunch of studies later, trying to verify that first study, showed there was no benefit. And as Shdwdrgn said, showed it fed harmful bacteria, the bacteria that kills and eats good bacteria. A single company was able to ship a viable bacteria in a bottle but it had to be refrigerated. They said it could jump start bio filtering by a day or two under the right conditions. The right conditions are generally when a new tank is filled with a lot fish and they need that extra day.

Sellers of bacteria will often cite that first study and ignore all the following studies. Same with barley straw and many other pond products.

In science an initial study is considered unproven until other studies can duplicate the results. Remember when Dr. B. Stanley Pons of the University of Utah and Dr. Martin Fleischmann of the University of Southampton announced that they had not only achieved hydrogen fusion in a simple electrolytic cell, but had obtained a substantial yield of energy. Power your home with free energy from a mayo jar. Quickly disproved by follow up studies. I could sell cold fusion mayo jars to the public and cite the first study "proving" it works and that I'm not a con man. Totally honest...right? Same scam is used for many pond products. The amazing thing is thousands of people claim it works...though they never have any data at all. Which is a proven human behavior called the Placebo Effect. They get really mad when their claim is doubted. Better to seem right than be right.

But, if you still believe the sellers there is also a common sense approach that bacteria always quickly grow to the limit of a given system. Since a system is always at maximum, adding more really doesn't do much. There is a short window when this isn't true, like a sudden increase in ammonia, it does take the bacteria a couple of days to catch up.

 

[Shdwdrgn]

And as Shdwdrgn said, showed it fed harmful bacteria, the bacteria that kills and eats good bacteria.

Putting words in my mouth? Actually I was not aware that it fed the harmful bacteria, I was thinking only of the good bacteria.

I'm not sure I agree with the bacteria always being at the maximum. Starting out a new pond is a good example of the varying degrees of 'maximum'. A well-established pond can sustain a certain amount of bacteria per square inches of surface area, however a new pond might only be able to sustain 1/10 of that. It depends on the food available and the water conditions, each of which have a large number of factors to consider. You also have to keep in mind that when those first few cells of bacteria enter the pond, it will take some time, even given ideal conditions, for them to multiply to billions of cells. Yes they can grow quickly, but it won't happen instantaneously.

From my experience, I believe that you can expect the first couple months of a new (or newly cleaned/refilled) pond to have less than ideal conditions. It is a larger ecosystem than an aquarium, so it will naturally take longer to become established and self-balanced. In the meantime, there may be things you can do to try and help it along, nudge the conditions in the right direction - but in the end it simply comes down to a waiting game, having patience until the pond finds its own balance.

 

[callingcolleen1]

Years ago I used it and saw good results. Weather or not its account of the money I spent on bacteria, I can't say for sure. I did set up the little pond in the front yard again this year on March 1 and all I put into that pond was a plant from another pond and a couple pumps here and there and it looks real good with just that, so who knows for sure, anythings possible. Maybe it really is just a rip off? Long ti me ago I did use Liquid bacteria and I did kind of wonder cause it did look just like water.... You got it anyway, so you might as well use it and if everything's good, don't worry, be happy!

 

[Waterbug]

Putting words in my mouth? Actually I was not aware that it fed the harmful bacteria, I was thinking only of the good bacteria.

Busted. It is another species (multiple) that kill and eat the Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter species. Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter don't eat organic matter, only chemicals.

I'm not sure I agree with the bacteria always being at the maximum. Starting out a new pond is a good example of the varying degrees of 'maximum'. A well-established pond can sustain a certain amount of bacteria per square inches of surface area, however a new pond might only be able to sustain 1/10 of that. It depends on the food available and the water conditions, each of which have a large number of factors to consider. You also have to keep in mind that when those first few cells of bacteria enter the pond, it will take some time, even given ideal conditions, for them to multiply to billions of cells. Yes they can grow quickly, but it won't happen instantaneously.

I agree...

There is a short window when this isn't true, like a sudden increase in ammonia, it does take the bacteria a couple of days to catch up.

And that is exactly what BIO-Spira claimed, to shorten the bio cycling by a day or two. And they had data to back up the claim and it was never refuted, although I don't know it was confirmed either. The normal time to cycle a bio filter is like a week with good temp, KH, pH, O2, etc. If you can find live bacteria in a bottle you might be able to shave a couple of days off. If that's the definition of "works", then it works.

The regular bacteria in a bottle products do contain bacteria, they can't really help not contain bacteria. However, it doesn't mean these bacteria are ready to go to work instantaneously either. Eurpoean Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter species at least go through a life cycle, where they swim, hang out at the pond bottom and then find a place to attach to a surface.

 

[micaaronfl76]

ok so keep using till i run out then dont worry about it. got it.

btw i may buy a 4 leaf clover for the pond, any cons to that?

 

[Shdwdrgn]

btw i may buy a 4 leaf clover for the pond, any cons to that?

I assume you mean the aquatic type, and not the ground-cover type? I've heard of a number of folks using it in their ponds, and never heard anything bad about it.

 

[micaaronfl76]

yes aquatic type, btw can u put them deep in the pond i only have one shelf left for it and its about a foot and a half below the water

 

[j.w]

I have mine on my 18" deep shelf and it's in about a 12" high pot and it's growing back this year fine!

 

[sissy]

You can put a crate in the pond and put your plant on top and cut an opening in the crate for a fish cave .Give fishies place to hide out .

 

[addy1]

I had mine in the bog and in the pond, growing back great. The water is around 10 inches or so over the top of the pot.

 

[micaaronfl76]

whats the difference between a bog and a garden pond?

 

[addy1]

My pond bog, pea gravel with constant water flow, some call it a plant gravel filter. The plants roots sit in shallow water.

A garden pond = some call a pond with goldfish and plants a garden pond. Some call a non filtered pond full of plants and some fish, a garden pond

Bog in the background water falling into the pond

Pond just water no pea gravel and the water is a lot deeper.

here you can see the pond in the front the bog, back of pond

I consider mine a garden pond, fish, wildlife, plants all in balance.

 

[callingcolleen1]

I'm very impressed, looks very natural. Love the different plants in your pond. How many years did it take you to get this look?

 

[addy1]

I'm very impressed, looks very natural. Love the different plants in your pond. How many years did it take you to get this look?

If you count years with fish this is its second summer, From time the shovel hit the ground this is just about exactly two years from the first dirt moved. The bog is taking off wonderfully this summer. All the plants were new last spring.

This was last spring

 

[callingcolleen1]

There was a product that I mentioned earlier called SHAC Environmental Products, which provide a natural solution to environmental problems. This product is all natural and invented/discovered here in Alberta. It was originally designed for septic systems and I found out about this product from friends who used it on their farms for their septic systems. People who used it swore it was amazing and took the smell of the septic waste away within days. At that time (10 years ago) I had trouble with excess sludge built up in the bottom of my pond. I used to work at this greenhouse making pond plants and growing apple snails and we started to carry the SHAC line for ponds called SHAC ponder. It was cheap in comparison to other natural products that I had used before. It truly is amazing, it helped with the stinky sludge at the bottom of the pond quickley. I added that bottle years ago, and let me tell you the amount of crap that falls naturally into my pond is huge! You would expect to find large amounts of waste in the spring and there is so little that I could carry it away in a gallon bucket.
I don't know how to link you to that site cause I'm still new to this computer stuff, but you can Google it and check it out!