callingcolleen1
mad hatter
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,431
- Reaction score
- 8,128
- Hardiness Zone
- 4a
- Country
Looks just awesome! Love the country look too!
stuck in green stage?
- Thread starter micaaronfl76
- Start date
callingcolleen1
mad hatter
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,431
- Reaction score
- 8,128
- Hardiness Zone
- 4a
- Country
Its called Shac Ponder, Google it and yes it can be added to dug outs, pond, and reservoirs too I believe. Its all natural. Check out the before and after pictures on the application site.
callingcolleen1
mad hatter
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,431
- Reaction score
- 8,128
- Hardiness Zone
- 4a
- Country
It will not hurt you or the fish. Farmers use it now here all the time. Have you googled it yet? It has before and after pictures. It really works well and completely safe, all natural and all good. Its not chemical. I know farmers and others, including myself, who have used it, and nobody died, nobody sick, everybody happy! My cherry tree is blooming, see reflections in the water.
Attachments
sissy
sissy
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2011
- Messages
- 33,086
- Reaction score
- 15,702
- Location
- Axton virginia
- Showcase(s):
- 1
- Hardiness Zone
- 7A
- Country
they have a video for that stuff on you tube but funny there is no sound callingcolleen
callingcolleen1
mad hatter
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,431
- Reaction score
- 8,128
- Hardiness Zone
- 4a
- Country
I don't know, never been much on u tube except to look up this funny video of the Maple Bacon dog that they were talking about a while back on the news. You can just call me Colleen too if you like. All I know is that I used it like it ten or so years ago because back then I had excess sludge and used it in my pond and I saw good results.
I don't buy much pond products anymore cause I have not had any troubles with the pond. Last year there was this greenhouse that had a big sale on pumps so I got some cause I don't use just one big sump pump like most people because little fish get sucked in, so I just use smaller pumps and only use pre-pump filters because thats what I prefer. I still use this one old filter that was my very first filter, twenty years ago, got it from Sera Water Garden products, don't know if that company is even around anymore. No one in town sells that line anymore. Bought some small fish food for the small fish, and some water conditioners and thats it. Big fish get same food as the puppies.
At the end of summer, you know when the pond is finally perfect, then fall comes and most people shut their ponds down, it don't. Have not shut pond down now for twenty years. Maybe that too is why I don't require pond products anymore, cause my pond has been "cycling" as you people say, for twenty years now!
I don't buy much pond products anymore cause I have not had any troubles with the pond. Last year there was this greenhouse that had a big sale on pumps so I got some cause I don't use just one big sump pump like most people because little fish get sucked in, so I just use smaller pumps and only use pre-pump filters because thats what I prefer. I still use this one old filter that was my very first filter, twenty years ago, got it from Sera Water Garden products, don't know if that company is even around anymore. No one in town sells that line anymore. Bought some small fish food for the small fish, and some water conditioners and thats it. Big fish get same food as the puppies.
At the end of summer, you know when the pond is finally perfect, then fall comes and most people shut their ponds down, it don't. Have not shut pond down now for twenty years. Maybe that too is why I don't require pond products anymore, cause my pond has been "cycling" as you people say, for twenty years now!
crsublette
coyotes call me Charles
I have seen some images of crystal clear fish ponds that show off rock colors and fish like Lost Lake in New Mexico; however, they achieve this with a very rigorous supplemental regiment.
If ya enjoying hiking and camping, Lost Lake is an amazing hike and beautiful lake at 11,000 elevation and fish in it. I don't know if it is open anymore with all of the state budget cuts.
Appears the flack bottle bacteria comes from folk who want nearly instant results within days like a chemical. Seems folk think water chemistry won't determine the effectiveness of dosages. The dosages on the bottles are just "recommended" for "normal" water chemistry.
As a farmer, I am quite skeptical about all the organic hype, but the science and documentation still makes sense.
Don't think bacteria bottles will act like a chemical such as fixing your problem within a few days. It is a balance game that requires constant maintenanace either by nature or supplements to nature. Nature is also not a fast process. Ya just don't "all of a sudden" have enough bacteria. The colonies must settle and grow appropriately according to your particular water chemistry and enzymes to help with the overabundances of nutrients and minerals.
Problem is bottle bacteria is expensive just like Miracle-Gro and all of the other oragnic fertilizers for households. I farm for a living and I would use Miracle-Gro or these other organics except it is not realistic at all due to the price tag on such a large scale.
Microbe-lift has some very good documentation. Even has a video portraying how all the different liquid bacteria vary by putting them under a microscope. They actually prefer ya to NOT use too much of the beneficial bacteria. They also state that water chemistry will determine dosages. Recommended 7mg/L of dissolve oxygen to maintain healthy bacteria, a constant flow of ammonia such as from fish or decay, and water temperature and alkanity determine effectiveness of the bacteria amongst other variables.
From what I have read, takes about 4~6 weeks to naturally cycle water completely and process restarts every year in Spring. During this cycle, I am told the water will go through all sorts of stages until everything is balanced. Some balance faster than others depending on their water chemistry. I am told this cycle can be shortened with fishless cycles by adding Ammonium Hydroxide maintaining a 5ppm. Once the 5ppm is depeleted within a day, then the water is cycled. Continue the ammonia dosages until fish are introduced. Ammonia and dissolved oxygen is required for beneficial bacteria to survive. The natural way of ammonia is fish feces and decaying of organic stuff. Once all ammonia is consumed or dissolved oxygen reduces, then the beneficial bacteria colonies begin to hibernate or die off. Google "fishless cycle". Also, too much ammonia will gorge beneficial bacteria to death.
From what I have read, big difference between liquid form and dry form bacteria is that the liquid are hibernating live bacteria in a diluted solution of hydrogen sulfide and the dry form is bacteria spores with chemical inhibitors to keep them hibernated. The chemical inhibitors are only bad for the water if ya put it too much dry bacteria spores. The liquid bacteria is capable of containing a special bacteria that converts nitrates back to nitrogen into the air; this is why so many recommend keeping a hole open in your pond water during winter to allow these naturally occuring gases to escape. Only particular types of bacteria can survive a wide range of temperatures; I am told this is why pond waters go through such big swings in the Spring while nature is working on balancing everything.
Sludge is created due to beneficial bacteria unable to keep up with the decaying materials and this is why there are natural enzymes to supplement the bacteria. Enzymes are varying amino acids to help control the potential overabundance of organics and do not increase dissolved oxygen depletion. This is why barley is beneficial. The decomposition of barley helps to create enzymes. This is why folk recommend cleaning leaves and stuff out of the water because nature's process is quite long to grow the enyzmes and bacteria to naturally deal with the material.
The "our water gardens are closed systems so it is different" bugs me a bit since a naturally forming plateau lake in my area are closed system ecosystems, containing fishing, and water changes made possible from rain runoff from the land and massive evaporation or absorption into the land. I figure the water chemistry of rain runoff noticeably changes as well as it progresses through various farm soils till it is deposited in the lake.
I enjoy researching and reading. I have not read anything, beyond disturbed consumers, that has disputed this stuff because I quite simply want to do this right without all the grief water can create in nature.
Nature is very slow. Ugh, organic farming on huge plots of land is quite volatile and risky and always brings in a smaller paycheck.
The Microbe-lift appears to do quite well. I will see here after this summer. My water is still crystal clear. I started doing a fishless cycle.
If ya enjoying hiking and camping, Lost Lake is an amazing hike and beautiful lake at 11,000 elevation and fish in it. I don't know if it is open anymore with all of the state budget cuts.
Appears the flack bottle bacteria comes from folk who want nearly instant results within days like a chemical. Seems folk think water chemistry won't determine the effectiveness of dosages. The dosages on the bottles are just "recommended" for "normal" water chemistry.
As a farmer, I am quite skeptical about all the organic hype, but the science and documentation still makes sense.
Don't think bacteria bottles will act like a chemical such as fixing your problem within a few days. It is a balance game that requires constant maintenanace either by nature or supplements to nature. Nature is also not a fast process. Ya just don't "all of a sudden" have enough bacteria. The colonies must settle and grow appropriately according to your particular water chemistry and enzymes to help with the overabundances of nutrients and minerals.
Problem is bottle bacteria is expensive just like Miracle-Gro and all of the other oragnic fertilizers for households. I farm for a living and I would use Miracle-Gro or these other organics except it is not realistic at all due to the price tag on such a large scale.
Microbe-lift has some very good documentation. Even has a video portraying how all the different liquid bacteria vary by putting them under a microscope. They actually prefer ya to NOT use too much of the beneficial bacteria. They also state that water chemistry will determine dosages. Recommended 7mg/L of dissolve oxygen to maintain healthy bacteria, a constant flow of ammonia such as from fish or decay, and water temperature and alkanity determine effectiveness of the bacteria amongst other variables.
From what I have read, takes about 4~6 weeks to naturally cycle water completely and process restarts every year in Spring. During this cycle, I am told the water will go through all sorts of stages until everything is balanced. Some balance faster than others depending on their water chemistry. I am told this cycle can be shortened with fishless cycles by adding Ammonium Hydroxide maintaining a 5ppm. Once the 5ppm is depeleted within a day, then the water is cycled. Continue the ammonia dosages until fish are introduced. Ammonia and dissolved oxygen is required for beneficial bacteria to survive. The natural way of ammonia is fish feces and decaying of organic stuff. Once all ammonia is consumed or dissolved oxygen reduces, then the beneficial bacteria colonies begin to hibernate or die off. Google "fishless cycle". Also, too much ammonia will gorge beneficial bacteria to death.
From what I have read, big difference between liquid form and dry form bacteria is that the liquid are hibernating live bacteria in a diluted solution of hydrogen sulfide and the dry form is bacteria spores with chemical inhibitors to keep them hibernated. The chemical inhibitors are only bad for the water if ya put it too much dry bacteria spores. The liquid bacteria is capable of containing a special bacteria that converts nitrates back to nitrogen into the air; this is why so many recommend keeping a hole open in your pond water during winter to allow these naturally occuring gases to escape. Only particular types of bacteria can survive a wide range of temperatures; I am told this is why pond waters go through such big swings in the Spring while nature is working on balancing everything.
Sludge is created due to beneficial bacteria unable to keep up with the decaying materials and this is why there are natural enzymes to supplement the bacteria. Enzymes are varying amino acids to help control the potential overabundance of organics and do not increase dissolved oxygen depletion. This is why barley is beneficial. The decomposition of barley helps to create enzymes. This is why folk recommend cleaning leaves and stuff out of the water because nature's process is quite long to grow the enyzmes and bacteria to naturally deal with the material.
The "our water gardens are closed systems so it is different" bugs me a bit since a naturally forming plateau lake in my area are closed system ecosystems, containing fishing, and water changes made possible from rain runoff from the land and massive evaporation or absorption into the land. I figure the water chemistry of rain runoff noticeably changes as well as it progresses through various farm soils till it is deposited in the lake.
I enjoy researching and reading. I have not read anything, beyond disturbed consumers, that has disputed this stuff because I quite simply want to do this right without all the grief water can create in nature.
Nature is very slow. Ugh, organic farming on huge plots of land is quite volatile and risky and always brings in a smaller paycheck.
The Microbe-lift appears to do quite well. I will see here after this summer. My water is still crystal clear. I started doing a fishless cycle.
callingcolleen1
mad hatter
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,431
- Reaction score
- 8,128
- Hardiness Zone
- 4a
- Country
I winter my pond and keep water flowing. I allow some leaves to fall into pond and leave them there till pond eats them. Because my water is flowing and I do heat pond when temps are colder that -15c or 0 f, there is always a small hole here and there that will be open. I still think leaves are good for pond, and if you take them all out you will need to put in barley or peat then. Many years ago when I used to think leaves were bad for pond, I did take them out and found that you can get mold growing in pond, on fish, after a long winter, because the leaves will give you the same effect as peat or barley. Peat is a natural fungicide and so are leaves from some trees. When I leave the leaves in each year, as I have done now for 20 years, the water will go golden, just like if you add peat or large amounts of barley. Leaves always fall in my pond every year, as they would in nature, and I don't remove them all cause I know that they are very good, as this has been my experience over the 20 years that I have been ponding it. My fish are all just fine with leaves in the bottom of their pond. Leaves will help the bacteria along to, this I believe to be true. Know lots of people in Canada that are constantly cleaning their ponds and they seem to aways have trouble. I on the other hand only clean my filters, fish never leave pond, pond aways look very clean and my water has be crystal clear for 20 years now using this method. Nature can be very amazing. 
callingcolleen1
mad hatter
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,431
- Reaction score
- 8,128
- Hardiness Zone
- 4a
- Country
About that organic farming, I always eat organic when available. I also have my own organic garden. It may be small but I have learned the trick to organic gardening is this; the trick is to have lots of bugs, tons and tons of bugs..... but not to much of any ONE bug. By having lots of different bugs, you will not have to many of any one bug, cause they all keep each other in check! Took me years to balance my garden, the right amount of different plants, used to buy ladybugs, now I have lots.
crsublette
coyotes call me Charles
I farm grains and other crops to feed livestock. Heh, funny ya mention the bugs. My grandfather would disperse thousands upon thousands of lady bugs and other beneficial bugs on his fields. My father told me later he would find the bugs have dispersed beyond his field and the yields never increased to justify the amount of money and time spent to disperse the bugs. Honey bees have been used for a while near Sunflower fields to improve germination; eventually, the cost of maintaining the honey bees was not practical.
Ya can get away with alot on small scale gardens and I bet ponds as well. Once ya multiply the acres of land or gallons of water by a few thousand or more, image changes a bit
In my area, without virgin land, to become an organic grain farmer to provide feed for organic dairies, an extremely hefty investment is paid over a period of 5 or more years until finally receiving the "organic" certification so ya can sell to the organic dairy ... ugh. Then, there are all sorts of crazy regulations that are always changing. Starting to say now that composted manure can not be used unless the manure is only produced my organically fed cattle. All for a little premium added to the paycheck for being "organic". I don't have anywhere near the business capital to be qualified for such a small premium; heh, I would be bankrupt by the time I get "organically" certified.
Ya can get away with alot on small scale gardens and I bet ponds as well. Once ya multiply the acres of land or gallons of water by a few thousand or more, image changes a bit
In my area, without virgin land, to become an organic grain farmer to provide feed for organic dairies, an extremely hefty investment is paid over a period of 5 or more years until finally receiving the "organic" certification so ya can sell to the organic dairy ... ugh. Then, there are all sorts of crazy regulations that are always changing. Starting to say now that composted manure can not be used unless the manure is only produced my organically fed cattle. All for a little premium added to the paycheck for being "organic". I don't have anywhere near the business capital to be qualified for such a small premium; heh, I would be bankrupt by the time I get "organically" certified.
callingcolleen1
mad hatter
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,431
- Reaction score
- 8,128
- Hardiness Zone
- 4a
- Country
I have heard that before from farmers here too. I buy grass feed beef cause I like the taste better, tastes like it used to a long time ago, and I still remember that taste. The people that I get my beef from said they do it all organic too but they are not certified cause of the money it would cost.
Just have to mention, the "experts said not to eat to much red meat cause it's not good for you and will cause cancer" and you can always "trust the experts" cause they know everything! Well this lady that lived in town, died a couple weeks ago, was in the paper, lot of people knew her and the family well. They lived outside of town, in the Cypress Hills area, Walsh to be precise. Cora Hansen was her name, was Canada's oldest living person, lived to 113 years of age. She lived out on the farm till she was darn near 100 years of age. They were Cattlemen Ranchers, and somehow I don't think that there was ever a shortage of beef in that house ever!
But what do I know, I not a "expert" thank goodness!
Just have to mention, the "experts said not to eat to much red meat cause it's not good for you and will cause cancer" and you can always "trust the experts" cause they know everything! Well this lady that lived in town, died a couple weeks ago, was in the paper, lot of people knew her and the family well. They lived outside of town, in the Cypress Hills area, Walsh to be precise. Cora Hansen was her name, was Canada's oldest living person, lived to 113 years of age. She lived out on the farm till she was darn near 100 years of age. They were Cattlemen Ranchers, and somehow I don't think that there was ever a shortage of beef in that house ever!
But what do I know, I not a "expert" thank goodness!
update looks like its getting worse instead of better ugh
callingcolleen1
mad hatter
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 9,431
- Reaction score
- 8,128
- Hardiness Zone
- 4a
- Country
What's getting worse! The water, or the string algae or both?