Yet more green water...

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

Ok, thanks for the links to the threads.

Question #1: what is the cleaning involved? Trim plants every 6 months? No need to clean the gravel at all? Use cleanout as well?

 

[addy1]

Ok, thanks for the links to the threads.

Question #1: what is the cleaning involved? Trim plants every 6 months? No need to clean the gravel at all? Use cleanout as well?

For me I have not cleaned the bog in 10 years. Plants it depends, I yank some now and then when they grow and cover all the bog surface. They can redirect the water flow. ie out. I have a 3 foot flat rock as the waterfall from the bog.
I do not have a clean out so never have used one. I did put in a bog drain, don't do that either.

It just runs and takes great care of the pond. I really do almost nothing for the pond all summer except yanking plants.
Here all plants die back for the winter, where you are they will probably grow all year.

 

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

Alright, I'll post some plans in a few days and have more specific questions about gravel depth, height of waterfall, etc.

 

[addy1]

have more specific questions about gravel depth, height of waterfall,

You will get answers of from 18 inches to 4 feet for the gravel...............mine is 2.5 feet deep, water fall the one from the bog about 8 inches. Others a few feet. There is no real this is the only way to build it answer.

 

[brokensword]

Alright, I'll post some plans in a few days and have more specific questions about gravel depth, height of waterfall, etc.

the main idea is to provide as much surface area as possible for the bacteria to colonize. For cleanouts (optional) you can use either a centipede and snorkel system or graduated rocks (which is what I did) and and a diy snorkel mechanism. A bog is a biofilter, not a mechanical filter, even though it will do such you don't want to push debris (large solids) into it as that's where clogging of the underside of your topmost layer (pea gravel) will happen. Use ALL rounded stone, nothing with anything like an edge. Keep a 6" wall of liner above the water level to insure when channeling happens, you won't lose water over the sides or by wicking.

 

[addy1]

Or do like I did all pea gravel. I draw the water for the bog about a foot from the bottom of the pond, keeps the large debris out of the bog. As said above in 10 years it has never been cleaned, no need. Except excess plants.

 

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

the main idea is to provide as much surface area as possible for the bacteria to colonize. For cleanouts (optional) you can use either a centipede and snorkel system or graduated rocks (which is what I did) and and a diy snorkel mechanism. A bog is a biofilter, not a mechanical filter, even though it will do such you don't want to push debris (large solids) into it as that's where clogging of the underside of your topmost layer (pea gravel) will happen. Use ALL rounded stone, nothing with anything like an edge. Keep a 6" wall of liner above the water level to insure when channeling happens, you won't lose water over the sides or by wicking.

This is all good advice, but you lost me with "centipede and snorkel system" . I guess this thread would help?

Aquascape centipede/snorkel system — please demystify for me!

@Lisak1 and anyone else who uses this system for pond filtration, can you please help me understand how it all goes together, how and why it works well, can it function as a bog, are there size limitations, how easy is it to maintain, and any other questions you can think of that I didn’t...

www.gardenpondforum.com

 

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

Ok, see my idea below so far... more details to follow later. Constraints on the site call for a partition type bog. The bog area would be built using construction wood (Douglas fir or pine) and pond liner. Obviously, drawing is not to scale I already have a mechanical filtration system so I plan to reuse the same pump.

 

[brokensword]

Ok, see my idea below so far... more details to follow later. Constraints on the site call for a partition type bog. The bog area would be built using construction wood (Douglas fir or pine) and pond liner. Obviously, drawing is not to scale I already have a mechanical filtration system so I plan to reuse the same pump.View attachment 143267

I'd insure 6" liner and wall above bog water level.

I'd insure 6" min drop at water fall/overflow.

Use at least 12" of pea gravel.

A bog should have a manifold pipe with slits cut 1/3 the way through for water egress.

You might have to test out the gph of your pump to insure you get enough push for the bog to work water up and through the pea gravel. Also, you're pushing it from below which should work, though most send the water up and over/through the bog sides/top.

Use shallow rooting but aggressive plants in your bog, at least, in addition to any others you want for visual appearance. Fast growing low growing plants will take out the most nutrients but will also require you to thin more often. After you work the bog for a while, you'll tweak for your specific pond requirements.

Not sure of your exact setup but it wouldn't be a bad idea to send your water through your mech filter and then pump it's output into the bog inlet. I have something similar though most just send water directly to the bog manifold.

General rule of thumb is the outlet is twice the diameter of the input, so if you plan some sort of waterfall weir output, make it able to allow at leat that much water to escape with leeway to make it larger or the ability to add more outputs in case your bog clogs a bit (from roots, etc) and the water level rises above the gravel.

Have your pump OFF the pond bottom as you don't want to send solids/debris to your bog. Most lift about 12" by setting it on bricks/blocks/milk crate.

From your pic; are you planning on having the wood come in contact with your pond? (it looks like your bog will be raised but OVER and IN the pond, from your pic; this is correct?) If so, I'd not unless you can keep the wood protected from direct water contact. A better idea is to use conc blocks, lift the entire bog OVER and out of the water, use 6x6 for the bottom, 4x4 for the sides, and line the inside. This way you won't have any wood rotting in your pond. My bog is built using 4x4s on three walls and a dirt backside, then lined over it all, with stone facia on the exposed wall.

Looks good, other than those points.

 

[Dimelius]

Totally agree with brokensword, better outside of the pond or in a future if the wood will rooting/break...will be a really mess...and pump not on the bottom just to avoid any issue about loosing water from bog that don't come back into pond(+brokensword words ofc) and will be drained and will loose the poor fishes.

 

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

That's all very good info, thanks!

Due to site constraints, I could do an outside bog, though I would be limited to something like 6' x 2' which is about 18% of the pond surface. Back to the drawing board... (uh, Google Drawings that is).

 

[brokensword]

That's all very good info, thanks!

Due to site constraints, I could do an outside bog, though I would be limited to something like 6' x 2' which is about 18% of the pond surface. Back to the drawing board... (uh, Google Drawings that is).

you know, you don't have to make it a 'box'; you can wrap it along a portion of your perimeter. Do try and get as much volume as you can as it'll only make your job easier in the future. I started with a 4'x4' bog, 3' deep for 2500 gallons. It worked fine until the fish started propagating. When I expanded, I knew I'd try and get as much real estate as I could (mine is enclosed, so...) and ended up with 20'x3'x3', which is still less than 30% but still works! If all you have is 6'x2', it'll still do you good. If you can, in that case, try for more depth to increase the volume; remember, this is mainly for biofiltration and that means as much surface area as you can. In this latter case, I'd put as many 2" cobbles on the bottom as you can plan for, then your 12" of pea gravel on tope of that.

Another idea is to spread a thin (like one layer) of pea gravel on your pond bottom; this will also increase your good bacteria surface area. I did this, though mainly because I got into koi and they like to root on the bottom.

 

[DerSchoeneBahnhof]

you know, you don't have to make it a 'box'; you can wrap it along a portion of your perimeter

Good point. It would be difficult, though, to have a "wrap around" bog as there are 3 large submerged pots with lilies around the perimeter. Also I have a big tent netting covering the pond ('cuz hawks love fish and I have seen them snatch them before), I figure it will be easier to have an outside bog. And I wouldn't have to crouch under the netting (which is raised 2 feet by 2x2 posts sitting on concrete blocks) to maintain the bog, trim plants, etc.

So we are saying, 6' x 2' rectangular outside bog, 2" cobbles layer on bottom, then 12" of pea gravel. Where would be the spout? Below the top of the pea gravel layer? Or have a spillway right at the top of the gravel layer (and below the 6" of extra wall height)?

 

[brokensword]

Good point. It would be difficult, though, to have a "wrap around" bog as there are 3 large submerged pots with lilies around the perimeter. Also I have a big tent netting covering the pond ('cuz hawks love fish and I have seen them snatch them before), I figure it will be easier to have an outside bog. And I wouldn't have to crouch under the netting (which is raised 2 feet by 2x2 posts sitting on concrete blocks) to maintain the bog, trim plants, etc.

So we are saying, 6' x 2' rectangular outside bog, 2" cobbles layer on bottom, then 12" of pea gravel. Where would be the spout? Below the top of the pea gravel layer? Or have a spillway right at the top of the gravel layer (and below the 6" of extra wall height)?

what I'm hinting at is you can make this a deep bog and gain volume. For instance, I have 12" of 8" round stone followed by 12" of 2" cobble, then I have 12" of pea gravel. You could do similar. This helps get you more bogging real estate.

The spillway should be the top of your pea gravel so the water has to travel all the way up, maximizing efficiency. Many of us have made a waterfall weir so we get some visual out of this but you can make your outlet piping/plumbing if you want to. And yes, keep 6" of liner+wall above your bog surface water height, in case you get some clogging and rising of bog water.

And yeah, I'd do the same with keeping it outside the pond and making it easy to thin plants; a bog is pretty maintenance free.

 

[Faebinder]

I added a submerged DIY filter in March this year. Pond is still greenish...

DIY filter has the following layers:
- water enters at the top of a submerged trash can
- high loft Poly-Fill (5 layers)
- sponges
- lava rock
- pump at bottom of trash can sucks water and brings water back up through PVC pipe, filtered water exits through the 2 outlets
- at current pump setting, about 500 gallons per hour

Pond specs:
- 11 feet long by 6 feet wide by 2 feet deep
- about 990 gallons when full
- the pond didn't have a pump for years and has accumulated a lot of goop at the bottom
- about 25 small goldfish (3-4 inch long)
- plants: water lilies, horse tail, smooth water hyssop, parrot feathers, marsh marigold

Any suggestion on next steps?

Simple.. you got too many fish. It means you need a bog.

The above posts suggest that you are going to make one. I’m proud of you finally catching on to the importance. Changing a filter once a month? Not if you have a bog.