Yet more green water...


addy1

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Or do like I did all pea gravel. I draw the water for the bog about a foot from the bottom of the pond, keeps the large debris out of the bog. As said above in 10 years it has never been cleaned, no need. Except excess plants.
 
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the main idea is to provide as much surface area as possible for the bacteria to colonize. For cleanouts (optional) you can use either a centipede and snorkel system or graduated rocks (which is what I did) and and a diy snorkel mechanism. A bog is a biofilter, not a mechanical filter, even though it will do such you don't want to push debris (large solids) into it as that's where clogging of the underside of your topmost layer (pea gravel) will happen. Use ALL rounded stone, nothing with anything like an edge. Keep a 6" wall of liner above the water level to insure when channeling happens, you won't lose water over the sides or by wicking.
This is all good advice, but you lost me with "centipede and snorkel system" :unsure:. I guess this thread would help?

 
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Ok, see my idea below so far... more details to follow later. Constraints on the site call for a partition type bog. The bog area would be built using construction wood (Douglas fir or pine) and pond liner. Obviously, drawing is not to scale ;) I already have a mechanical filtration system so I plan to reuse the same pump.
Pond Bog.jpg
 

brokensword

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Ok, see my idea below so far... more details to follow later. Constraints on the site call for a partition type bog. The bog area would be built using construction wood (Douglas fir or pine) and pond liner. Obviously, drawing is not to scale ;) I already have a mechanical filtration system so I plan to reuse the same pump.View attachment 143267
I'd insure 6" liner and wall above bog water level.

I'd insure 6" min drop at water fall/overflow.

Use at least 12" of pea gravel.

A bog should have a manifold pipe with slits cut 1/3 the way through for water egress.

You might have to test out the gph of your pump to insure you get enough push for the bog to work water up and through the pea gravel. Also, you're pushing it from below which should work, though most send the water up and over/through the bog sides/top.

Use shallow rooting but aggressive plants in your bog, at least, in addition to any others you want for visual appearance. Fast growing low growing plants will take out the most nutrients but will also require you to thin more often. After you work the bog for a while, you'll tweak for your specific pond requirements.

Not sure of your exact setup but it wouldn't be a bad idea to send your water through your mech filter and then pump it's output into the bog inlet. I have something similar though most just send water directly to the bog manifold.

General rule of thumb is the outlet is twice the diameter of the input, so if you plan some sort of waterfall weir output, make it able to allow at leat that much water to escape with leeway to make it larger or the ability to add more outputs in case your bog clogs a bit (from roots, etc) and the water level rises above the gravel.

Have your pump OFF the pond bottom as you don't want to send solids/debris to your bog. Most lift about 12" by setting it on bricks/blocks/milk crate.

From your pic; are you planning on having the wood come in contact with your pond? (it looks like your bog will be raised but OVER and IN the pond, from your pic; this is correct?) If so, I'd not unless you can keep the wood protected from direct water contact. A better idea is to use conc blocks, lift the entire bog OVER and out of the water, use 6x6 for the bottom, 4x4 for the sides, and line the inside. This way you won't have any wood rotting in your pond. My bog is built using 4x4s on three walls and a dirt backside, then lined over it all, with stone facia on the exposed wall.

Looks good, other than those points.
 
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Totally agree with brokensword, better outside of the pond or in a future if the wood will rooting/break...will be a really mess...and pump not on the bottom just to avoid any issue about loosing water from bog that don't come back into pond(+brokensword words ofc) and will be drained and will loose the poor fishes.
 
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That's all very good info, thanks!

Due to site constraints, I could do an outside bog, though I would be limited to something like 6' x 2' which is about 18% of the pond surface. Back to the drawing board... (uh, Google Drawings that is).
 
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brokensword

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That's all very good info, thanks!

Due to site constraints, I could do an outside bog, though I would be limited to something like 6' x 2' which is about 18% of the pond surface. Back to the drawing board... (uh, Google Drawings that is).
you know, you don't have to make it a 'box'; you can wrap it along a portion of your perimeter. Do try and get as much volume as you can as it'll only make your job easier in the future. I started with a 4'x4' bog, 3' deep for 2500 gallons. It worked fine until the fish started propagating. When I expanded, I knew I'd try and get as much real estate as I could (mine is enclosed, so...) and ended up with 20'x3'x3', which is still less than 30% but still works! If all you have is 6'x2', it'll still do you good. If you can, in that case, try for more depth to increase the volume; remember, this is mainly for biofiltration and that means as much surface area as you can. In this latter case, I'd put as many 2" cobbles on the bottom as you can plan for, then your 12" of pea gravel on tope of that.

Another idea is to spread a thin (like one layer) of pea gravel on your pond bottom; this will also increase your good bacteria surface area. I did this, though mainly because I got into koi and they like to root on the bottom.
 
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you know, you don't have to make it a 'box'; you can wrap it along a portion of your perimeter
Good point. It would be difficult, though, to have a "wrap around" bog as there are 3 large submerged pots with lilies around the perimeter. Also I have a big tent netting covering the pond ('cuz hawks love fish and I have seen them snatch them before), I figure it will be easier to have an outside bog. And I wouldn't have to crouch under the netting (which is raised 2 feet by 2x2 posts sitting on concrete blocks) to maintain the bog, trim plants, etc.

So we are saying, 6' x 2' rectangular outside bog, 2" cobbles layer on bottom, then 12" of pea gravel. Where would be the spout? Below the top of the pea gravel layer? Or have a spillway right at the top of the gravel layer (and below the 6" of extra wall height)?
 

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Good point. It would be difficult, though, to have a "wrap around" bog as there are 3 large submerged pots with lilies around the perimeter. Also I have a big tent netting covering the pond ('cuz hawks love fish and I have seen them snatch them before), I figure it will be easier to have an outside bog. And I wouldn't have to crouch under the netting (which is raised 2 feet by 2x2 posts sitting on concrete blocks) to maintain the bog, trim plants, etc.

So we are saying, 6' x 2' rectangular outside bog, 2" cobbles layer on bottom, then 12" of pea gravel. Where would be the spout? Below the top of the pea gravel layer? Or have a spillway right at the top of the gravel layer (and below the 6" of extra wall height)?
what I'm hinting at is you can make this a deep bog and gain volume. For instance, I have 12" of 8" round stone followed by 12" of 2" cobble, then I have 12" of pea gravel. You could do similar. This helps get you more bogging real estate.

The spillway should be the top of your pea gravel so the water has to travel all the way up, maximizing efficiency. Many of us have made a waterfall weir so we get some visual out of this but you can make your outlet piping/plumbing if you want to. And yes, keep 6" of liner+wall above your bog surface water height, in case you get some clogging and rising of bog water.

And yeah, I'd do the same with keeping it outside the pond and making it easy to thin plants; a bog is pretty maintenance free.
 
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I added a submerged DIY filter in March this year. Pond is still greenish...

DIY filter has the following layers:
- water enters at the top of a submerged trash can
- high loft Poly-Fill (5 layers)
- sponges
- lava rock
- pump at bottom of trash can sucks water and brings water back up through PVC pipe, filtered water exits through the 2 outlets
- at current pump setting, about 500 gallons per hour

Pond specs:
- 11 feet long by 6 feet wide by 2 feet deep
- about 990 gallons when full
- the pond didn't have a pump for years and has accumulated a lot of goop at the bottom
- about 25 small goldfish (3-4 inch long)
- plants: water lilies, horse tail, smooth water hyssop, parrot feathers, marsh marigold

Any suggestion on next steps?
Simple.. you got too many fish. It means you need a bog.

The above posts suggest that you are going to make one. I’m proud of you finally catching on to the importance. Changing a filter once a month? Not if you have a bog.
 
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The above posts suggest that you are going to make one. I’m proud of you finally catching on to the importance. Changing a filter once a month? Not if you have a bog.

Once a month quick cleaning doesn't bother me too much, but the pea soup and being unable to see more than 4 inches deep does...

Still at the design phase and dreaming of clear (or at least clearer) water so I can enjoy my upside down tank feature even more :cool: Will cleaner water result in faster growing fish? They (goldfish, shubunkin, comet) are growing slowly.
 
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brokensword

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Once a month quick cleaning doesn't bother me too much, but the pea soup and being unable to see more than 4 inches deep does...

Still at the design phase and dreaming of clear (or at least clearer) water so I can enjoy my upside down tank feature even more :cool: Will cleaner water result in faster growing fish? They (goldfish, shubunkin, comet) are growing slowly.
the fish don't mind the free-floating algae and no, neither clearer water nor green will affect growth as long as the algae is taking care of the over-abundance of nutrients in the water column. It's us ponders that want clear water. In Japan, they grow their fish in mud ponds; you can use your imagination re viewing ability and you'll be close!

Goldfish don't grow as fast as koi, which is a good thing for most ponders as it helps keep the bioload growth at a slower rate, giving you time to address issues. With koi, it can happen a lot faster and overwhelm many newbies. I found most of my goldfish take their time growing; I have most in the 8" area and that's after 7-8 years. Too, if you feed a lot, that helps them grow faster but it also could be contributing to the excess algae growth. I only feed once a day, a handful at a time until everyone has some.

I don't know if this was addressed yet, but do you have a decent amount of debris on the pond bottom? If so, I'd take a net and SLOWLY get it all out. It will help keep the algae down, too.
 
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do you have a decent amount of debris on the pond bottom?
A LOT of debris. The bottom has accumulated sludge for years :cautious:

I need to do more raking for sure (without catching the salamanders that may live on the bottom - I know there are at least 2 baby salamanders in the pond, possibly more).
 
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Here is my revised idea, outside bog, resting close to the wall, about 6' - 8' long by 2'. Spillway would need to be extended a bit so I still have some room to crawl around for maintenance. Planting area would be outside netting.

TBD what to build the box from. Most likely wood frame with pond liner.

Pond Bog Setup.jpg
 

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Here is my revised idea, outside bog, resting close to the wall, about 6' - 8' long by 2'. Spillway would need to be extended a bit so I still have some room to crawl around for maintenance. Planting area would be outside netting.

TBD what to build the box from. Most likely wood frame with pond liner.

View attachment 143291
that looks like it would work well; IF you can, incorporate at least 4" for facia to cover the liner as it hangs down into the pond. You could plan for less space if you used something like Rock on a Roll (google it) as an option. With your more modern look, you could consider stone tiling as you have on the patio/walkway area. Other options are to grow some plants (such as creeping jenny) at the very spill and it'll work it's way down toward the pond like vining. I've done this on my waterfall and it took about a year to grow in such that it looks naturalized. There's other options; just do some googling and see what fits your vision.

And if you made this bog tall enough so you could reach the top from the back wall level, you could make it deeper if you needed the volume. I'd mock it up both ways and see which looks best to you. The plants (if you choose such a type) can grow tall and to the top of your wall, too. Thinning the low growing ones would be a bit tricky (I'm assuming they'd be nearest the spill wall) so consider being able to take some sort of plank from pond side to the bog side, something you could then just walk on and make getting at the area easier. I do something similar in the winter when I put up my winter tent; boards go across so I can walk anywhere, setting up the A frame and plastic sheeting. In the spring, I take it all down. In your case, you just need an access that's easy to set up and take down. A couple of 2x10s would suffice.
 
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that looks like it would work well; IF you can, incorporate at least 4" for facia to cover the liner as it hangs down into the pond. You could plan for less space if you used something like Rock on a Roll (google it) as an option. With your more modern look, you could consider stone tiling as you have on the patio/walkway area. Other options are to grow some plants (such as creeping jenny) at the very spill and it'll work it's way down toward the pond like vining. I've done this on my waterfall and it took about a year to grow in such that it looks naturalized. There's other options; just do some googling and see what fits your vision.

And if you made this bog tall enough so you could reach the top from the back wall level, you could make it deeper if you needed the volume. I'd mock it up both ways and see which looks best to you. The plants (if you choose such a type) can grow tall and to the top of your wall, too. Thinning the low growing ones would be a bit tricky (I'm assuming they'd be nearest the spill wall) so consider being able to take some sort of plank from pond side to the bog side, something you could then just walk on and make getting at the area easier. I do something similar in the winter when I put up my winter tent; boards go across so I can walk anywhere, setting up the A frame and plastic sheeting. In the spring, I take it all down. In your case, you just need an access that's easy to set up and take down. A couple of 2x10s would suffice.

Darn, there is so much mind boggling good advice on this website. I hadn't thought too much about access to trim the plants. I didn't know about Rock on a Roll too, seems like a smart idea.

In any event, I need to do more pondering on that project to make sure it holds water. So I am floating many ideas. Ok, enough puns for today...

Another Q: what about this for a pond box? Could be sitting in the middle of the pond on cinder blocks. Waterfalls on 4 sides.


Still haven't decided on the design yet. All options open.
 
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addy1

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I have one of those, been thrown around and used for years. Still in great shape, tough.
 
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Then on top of that mortar box I could add a wood frame (two by sixes or something) to raise the walls, add cover the frame with pond liner.

I bet the liner should go all the way to the bottom?

Rough drawing:

bog_bottom.jpg
 

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Then on top of that mortar box I could add a wood frame (two by sixes or something) to raise the walls, add cover the frame with pond liner.

I bet the liner should go all the way to the bottom?

Rough drawing:

View attachment 143349
it would work but I'd steer away from this idea for one reason; you LOSE valuable pond visability. That is, anything/fish that goes beneath you can't see. It's like having too many water lilies; some are nice--a necessary function of shade and flowers--but if half or more of your surface is covered, you have to wait for anything to emerge. I think the outside-of-the pond bog idea will treat you better in the long run.

As an idea for getting at your plants to thin; you can build your box against that wall and once you have the gravel in, place some long, narrow, approx 1-2" thick sandstone pieces near but not on the edge. You then use this 'path' for walking on to get at thinning the plants. It's what I did. Mine also double as 'channel' makers for the outpour over the facia wall.

Doing the above then gives you more volume+surface area for your bog (based on your pics, imo).

IF you were to go the way of the mortar box, you would NOT need any liner (or wood walls) as the water can spill over the sides and if you wanted one particular area, you cut that side down an inch or so and voila! instant waterfall/cascade. I did something like your pic (NOT in the pond, but above and outside my winter turtle pool system) as an axuiliary bog; just pea stone over a pvc manifold with slits, and a small pump from the turtle pool.
 
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1. do not build this up on cinderblocks if you want to say good by to green water then make the bog the entire depth.
2. Make the bog the full length of the pond . making it even a couple feet larger then the pond would add some interest.
3. the more pea stone the bigger the bog the more surface area. the more room for plants and the deeper will keep the roots from clogging your pipes.

I would remove the retaining wall in the back and build it forward make the bog recess into the small lift in the hill, the bog can have plants like canna that are stunning and can add so much to a yard.

don't build the pond a third time i am a firm believer in over filtering better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it
 

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