Darksaber Pond - My Next Adventure

[combatwombat]

Question on the intake bay. I have mostly river rocks in the intake bay and leaves and debris of get pulled into the rocks, should I have a smaller gravel over top to act like a pre-filter and make it easier to net things out?

It’s a balancing act. The smaller the media, the better the filtering and, so, the more frequently it will need service/cleaning. Are you concerned about the bog?

@Jhn: What do you think about planting the pond/bog in the fall? I think I finally have time to do it, but feels pretty late now.

 

[addy1]

: What do you think about planting the pond/bog in the fall? I think I finally have time to do it, but feels pretty late now.

I planted mine in Oct. The plants settled in over winter and took off in the spring.

 

[Jhn]

It’s a balancing act. The smaller the media, the better the filtering and, so, the more frequently it will need service/cleaning. Are you concerned about the bog?

@Jhn: What do you think about planting the pond/bog in the fall? I think I finally have time to do it, but feels pretty late now.

Agree with @addy1, nothing wrong with planting in fall, gives them a bit of time to establish themselves/root system and a better chance of them taking off quickly the following spring. I am all about establishing plants in ponds as soon as possible, as they are truly the janitors of the water garden ecosystem, making the maintaining of water quality much easier by mopping up all the crap left by wildlife and the end result of the nitrogen cycle.

When I build living shorelines/marsh creations, which is a little different, but the plants do much better when planted in early spring or fall, as they get a better chance to establish their root systems be for the no rain/ heat of summer hits my area.

 

[GBBUDD]

Most plants don't die off in the winter they crawl back into the roots and grow slowly very very slowly throughout the winter. the fibrous microscopic roots will grow when given the chance in the fall and in the earliest of spring.

In your area I don't know if I'd be afraid to plant just about anything short of tropical . But even like a papyrus which is a tropical and has a CRAZY roots system if you planted some and just mulched over the base of the plants keep the frost off . I'd almost bet it would survive the winter and take off the mad in the spring.

so yes i agree with @Jhn AND @addy1 i'd be planting anything that can survive in your zone

 

[GBBUDD]

Question on algae. This year we've had a ton of algae growing almost as mats on the bottom and then floating up over time. It's as though something has died and released all the organics but all the fish are there. We did plant a number of irises in the spring that didn't make it but the amount of algae seems excessive.

Water is really clear it's just these mats that are growing on the bottom and then floating up, any thoughts?

a first year pond and even into the second year for a larger pond. It takes time for the bacteria to grow and cover all the surface areas for the bugs and the microbes to find your pond , some even by hitch hiking on a bird mouse of frog even 17 snakes.

The other fact is we need to learn our ponds. My water source is not going to be the same as yours . And i do have a higher ph but it flutuates more than i like with heavy rains. so i add baking soda to raise the kh. This also helped with the algae situation a little in the second year. Check your kh .

Another product i did find helpful is Nualgi IT'S ISOTOPES AND so that take some time to gather use as directed and i would see the algae slowly change to where it was pealing off and floating to the top. it wasn't a miracle but every effort helps to find your balance

That is two AP 1-120 Performance Pro Artesian Pumps 12,000 GPH each at 6' head and a third for the jets and urns. There is a decent amount of head pressure and the way they did the plumbing wasn't super clean so there's more loss there. I think they calculated it at 23k for the entire system so maybe 14k at the waterfall? Which come to think of it I'm not sure that's right. Total volume is 13k so 1 turn over an hour seems higher than reality.

i run the same pump but i am only running one . and i have a very small 500 gallon pump rotating the water in the cistern.

2 pumps ? how much did your electric bill go up:?

 

[milonedp]

Most plants don't die off in the winter they crawl back into the roots and grow slowly very very slowly throughout the winter. the fibrous microscopic roots will grow when given the chance in the fall and in the earliest of spring.

In your area I don't know if I'd be afraid to plant just about anything short of tropical . But even like a papyrus which is a tropical and has a CRAZY roots system if you planted some and just mulched over the base of the plants keep the frost off . I'd almost bet it would survive the winter and take off the mad in the spring.

so yes i agree with @Jhn AND @addy1 i'd be planting anything that can survive in your zone

What do you mean mulch over the base? Mulch in the wetland filter?!?

 

[milonedp]

a first year pond and even into the second year for a larger pond. It takes time for the bacteria to grow and cover all the surface areas for the bugs and the microbes to find your pond , some even by hitch hiking on a bird mouse of frog even 17 snakes.

The other fact is we need to learn our ponds. My water source is not going to be the same as yours . And i do have a higher ph but it flutuates more than i like with heavy rains. so i add baking soda to raise the kh. This also helped with the algae situation a little in the second year. Check your kh .

Another product i did find helpful is Nualgi IT'S ISOTOPES AND so that take some time to gather use as directed and i would see the algae slowly change to where it was pealing off and floating to the top. it wasn't a miracle but every effort helps to find your balance
i run the same pump but i am only running one . and i have a very small 500 gallon pump rotating the water in the cistern.

2 pumps ? how much did your electric bill go up:?

I used Nuagli in my reef and have been going back and forth on starting in the pond... Thanks I may try it now.

Electric went up quite a bit, thankfully I budgeted for it but during planning that was one of the bigger surprises...

For 13k gallons do you think that's good flow? 1 goes to the bottom of the wetland and the other is near the top really just for visuals of the waterfalls.

Also what do you think about get a larger pump in the deeper area to get more flow there. The jet system just doesn't push as much as I was expecting.

 

[milonedp]

Hard to see what plants are in the bog/pond and which ones around the landscape of the pond. The species of a plants matter on nutrient banking/consumption to starve out algae. Irises are good nutrient consumers, but the issue is they can take a year or so to really get going. Ones that grow quickly almost right away are water celery, water cress, forgetmenots, marsh marigold, parrot feather, creeping Jenny, too name a few. You want plants that grow like wildfire, but are easy to weed back, ie don’t have huge root systems, the aforementioned fit that bill. My bogs get overrun with these plants numerous times through out the summer, where I have to get in there and weed out a wheel barrow fulls. Think about it as the faster a given plant grows the more nutrients it needs and consumes to achieve that growth, thus starving out the algae.

I've had somewhat odd results with plants...
Irises in the back of the wetland are growing like weeds, I need to give some away
Mexican Petunias are spreading like wildfire
Dwarf hibiscus doing well but slow
Cardinal Flower all died off this year, no idea why
Dwarf horsetail grows like a weed
Horsetail is slow
Creeping Jenny and Mazsus like weeds
Bacopa slow
Pickerelweed slow
Water lettuce slow then dies after months
Water Hyacinth dies after weeks
Various lizard tail SUPER slow
Elephant ear - fast spreading
Pitcher Plants - do well
Watercress did great last year started to come back in the spring then dies off

Any suggestions on what would be good for some nutrient uptake for this season? Same list as above or would you tweak it? We still have a couple months of warmer weather.

 

[milonedp]

It’s a balancing act. The smaller the media, the better the filtering and, so, the more frequently it will need service/cleaning. Are you concerned about the bog?

Not concerned about the bog I was looking for easy servicing, when the leaves get pulled into / under the rocks I'm not getting them out.

Maybe something smaller than the river rock but larger than the gravel?

 

[GBBUDD]

I used Nuagli in my reef and have been going back and forth on starting in the pond... Thanks I may try it now.

Electric went up quite a bit, thankfully I budgeted for it but during planning that was one of the bigger surprises...

For 13k gallons do you think that's good flow? 1 goes to the bottom of the wetland and the other is near the top really just for visuals of the waterfalls.

Also what do you think about get a larger pump in the deeper area to get more flow there. The jet system just doesn't push as much as I was expecting.

our ponds are very similar in size but i only use the one 12000. what did they estimate the overall volume of the pond to be . I wonder if 12000 TO THE BOG IS TO MUCH. But i don't know how big it really is.

my 1-12,000 feeds two bogs and two venturi return jets that are in the pond for circulation. i think the reason your falls gph looked lower than i thought was the water is pushed together making for a concentrated falls and not spread out to make a sheet flow looking like more.

larger pumps are by comparison huge energy pigs not just because they are larger but by ratio . for more circulation in the pond id look at aquascapes circulation pumps no plumbing needed just wiring.

 

[GBBUDD]

What do you mean mulch over the base? Mulch in the wetland filter?!?

Pile of straw on the plants how deep is the water on the surface of the bog

 

[combatwombat]

I don’t recall what your flow rate is, but if you have a second pump on the falls just for looks, you could put it on a timer or a smart plug so it’s only running when someone is there to actually look at it.

larger pumps are by comparison huge energy pigs not just because they are larger but by ratio . for more circulation in the pond id look at aquascapes circulation pumps no plumbing needed just wiring.

Agreed. 40 watts will get you 2k GPH of circulation right where you want it with no plumbing. And it’s 12V AC so you can tap into your landscape lighting wiring to power it. Couldn’t be easier.

 

[milonedp]

Pile of straw on the plants how deep is the water on the surface of the bog

Varies from 0 to 10 inches, I was thinking about filling in more so there'd be more of a stream running through the bog and plant it in more. Wasn't sure if that'd make spring time maintenance harder though. Thoughts?

How deep is the water on yours?

You don't worry about the mulch decaying into the water-column?

 

[milonedp]

I don’t recall what your flow rate is, but if you have a second pump on the falls just for looks, you could put it on a timer or a smart plug so it’s only running when someone is there to actually look at it.



Agreed. 40 watts will get you 2k GPH of circulation right where you want it with no plumbing. And it’s 12V AC so you can tap into your landscape lighting wiring to power it. Couldn’t be easier.

The extra pump is on a smart plug but I don't turn it on and off as much as I thought I would.

I was looking at those power heads, but the pond is also something the girls go swimming in so had been avoiding internal pumps.

I could take it out when they go in but that then depends on where I'd put it. Would you go with the deepest spot?

 

[combatwombat]

The extra pump is on a smart plug but I don't turn it on and off as much as I thought I would.

The real beauty of smart plugs is automation. Scheduling + presence sensing would eliminate the need to think about turning it on and off. Even just a simple schedule so you don't have to think about turning it on/off at night or in the morning.

I was looking at those power heads, but the pond is also something the girls go swimming in so had been avoiding internal pumps.

You could put those on schedules/automation, too, but it's a little more involved to automate an outdoor low voltage circuit. IF someone is present outside (motion detected during certain hours or door/gate sensor activated etc.) THEN disable internal pumps.