Submersible pump clogging question

[ralphjramirez]

I have a small garden pond containing approximately 540 gallons. I just installed a new Laguna Pressure-Flo 700 UVC external filter and am using an existing Rio Aqua Pump Powerhead 2100 with a capacity of 692 gallons per hour. I have installed an inline venturi to reduce water flow to the waterfall which is approximately 2 feet above water level. The overflow is redirected back into the pond. The problem I am having is that the built-in filter in the Rio motor clogs up with pond matter within a couple days reducing flow to a trickle and I need to pull the motor out to clean it. I now have added a sock filter around the motor which seems to be working much better but not sure how long it will remain clear. Looking at the filter I am almost certain it won't last a week before it will need be cleaned, I hope I am wrong. My pond water is very clear, no algae at all. I have been told that the Rio 2100 is too strong and that I should install a smaller one. All I am after is something that would last at least 7-10 days before it needs to be cleaned. Is the motor creating so much suction that it is pulling too much debris/plant matter from the pond? A smaller pump should pull less debris, is this really my answer? I have been told to install a pump with a capacity of 350 gallons rather than the Rio's 692 but I hesitate to do this without some more input. I hope this makes sense as my typing and my thoughts don't always agree.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.


Regards...........Ralph

 

[ralphjramirez]

Sorry, I meant to include a link to a photo of my pond. Here it is:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3820/8858040350_dbf53675f1_z.jpg

Hope this helps................Ralph

 

[koiguy1969]

pressure filtters require a higher flow rate to get a decent backfklush...IMO you are by no means over powering it. just a good prefilter is all you need. never used a sock but a couple mesh planter baskets ziptied together to encase the pump would likely serve the purpose maybe stretch the sock over them. the cleaner you can keep the filter the more efficient it will be. prefilters also can catch the softer debris like fish poop before your pumps impellor purees them and sends them to the filter to coat the bio media and minimize their effectiveness.

 

[ralphjramirez]

pressure filtters require a higher flow rate to get a decent backfklush...IMO you are by no means over powering it. just a good prefilter is all you need. never used a sock but a couple mesh planter baskets ziptied together to encase the pump would likely serve the purpose maybe stretch the sock over them. the cleaner you can keep the filter the more efficient it will be. prefilters also can catch the softer debris like fish poop before your pumps impellor purees them and sends them to the filter to coat the bio media and minimize their effectiveness.

Thank you koiguy. Good to hear the pump isn't too strong.. The sock is basically what you suggest doing so I guess I should wait and see how long it takes before it clogs. I've had this pump for 3 years now running 24/7, very dependable however; I have had a problem recently perhaps you have a suggestion. When I power it off to clear clogging it sometimes will not re-start. I check the rotar and it is clean, reassemple it and then it starts. Is it time for a new pump or what do you think could be the cause?

I really appreciate your input, thanks again................Ralph

 

[koiguy1969]

dial the flow to the filter back while your running the filter by 1/3. and run it full while backflushing. heres a simple and SLOPPY diagram of the plumbing.

this will give you total control on flow. open the second ball valve all the way and adjusting the one to the filter will divert the water bypassing filter right to falls.(or wherever). close the second one and open the first to backwash. that will put the pumps full flow thru the filter for a good backwash....your filter is rated at 660gph.

 

[ralphjramirez]

koiguy, thanks for your input. What you are showing me is pretty much like I have mine. Click on link below and you will see my poor illustraion of how my pump is setup. It appears regardless of how much I reduce the flow the same amount of suction will always be applied I am merely redirecting the flow away from the filter and back into the pond. Am I wrong in this asumption?

Thanks again...........Ralph

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3727/8859702019_0f96ac53bb_o.jpg

 

[gardengimp]

Ralph, take a look at the prefilters from Matala, here. When I think of Powerhead (from a zillion years ago), I think of something that sat on top a tube in the aquarium and sucked water from beneath an underground filter. If your powerhead has a gidgy widget like that, then you could probably make something like the Matala prefilters. Cleaning a prefilter that is attached to the pump by way of a 18" or so section of flex tubing is very much easier than cleaning a cage around the entire filter. Currently, I'm doing both (two different pumps).

 

[koiguy1969]

tetrapond makes matala syle prefilters also.. i use them. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=23511
they have 2 sizes...dont know which this one is. i use the larger ones. the inserts are called foams but their like matala. i got mine at Lowes
and your right diverting flow does not decrease draw from the pump. you dont want to limit flow from a pump. it wears on the pump. plumb like my pic shows and your good to go.

 

[HTH]

Nice little pond.

 

[ralphjramirez]

Ralph, take a look at the prefilters from Matala, here. When I think of Powerhead (from a zillion years ago), I think of something that sat on top a tube in the aquarium and sucked water from beneath an underground filter. If your powerhead has a gidgy widget like that, then you could probably make something like the Matala prefilters. Cleaning a prefilter that is attached to the pump by way of a 18" or so section of flex tubing is very much easier than cleaning a cage around the entire filter. Currently, I'm doing both (two different pumps).

Thank you gardengimp for the link. I appears that there many different kinds of pre-filters and have come to the conclusion that the sock that I have installed is quite similar and hopefully will do the job. It has been running now for 3 days and pressure appears the same. I will certainly keep all links in case what I have doesn't work. What I have is this: http://www.pondliner.com/p-337-pondfiltration-pump-sock.aspx

I had already purchased it before finding this forum which I find to be extremely helpful.

Thanks again...............Ralph

 

[ralphjramirez]

tetrapond makes matala syle prefilters also.. i use them. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=23511
they have 2 sizes...dont know which this one is. i use the larger ones. the inserts are called foams but their like matala. i got mine at Lowes
and your right diverting flow does not decrease draw from the pump. you dont want to limit flow from a pump. it wears on the pump. plumb like my pic shows and your good to go.

Good Morning koiguy and thanks for the link. Please view my reply to gardengimp. I hope what I have will work and if not I'll research all the great suggestions provided here. Rather than start another topic perhaps I can get an answer here. My Rio pump has been running 24/7 for approximately 3 years trouble-free until now. What happens is that occasionally when I stop the pump to pull it out of the pond for cleaning it will not re-start. I remove the impeller but find no clogging but after putting it back together the pump will then start. Is it time to get another pump? I would hate to have it fail while I am away on a trip.

Any suggestions will be appreciated and again Thank You for all your help............Ralph

Link to my pre-filter: http://www.pondliner.com/p-337-pondfiltration-pump-sock.aspx

 

[ralphjramirez]

Nice little pond.

Thank you HTH, we really enjoy it..

Regards..........Ralph

 

[ralphjramirez]

Hello Everyone,

An update on my situation. The new setup last 3 days before the pump filter + filter sock clogged up again. Tomorrow I will be shopping at a local fish store that has a rather large inventory of pond equipment for a new pump with less power. I think that if I install a smaller pump that will give me the water flow I want hopefully it will last at least a week before clogging, I can live with that. My guess is that the larger motor is just pulling much too hard and sucking too much debris. I will hopefully find someone that is pond literate that can give me further advice and help me select the correct pump. I know that they will let you take a pump home and try it and exchange for another if it doesn't meet my needs which is the reason I am not shopping online for the best price.

Again, thanks to all and if you have further suggestions please let me know.

Regards.............Ralph

 

[addy1]

I used a combination of fencing, (plastic) and a wire trash bucket to cover my wide open 3 inch pvc pipe pulling water for the pump. It takes a few months before it clogs up enough to lower the water flow. The sock might be too fine. My pump is external, but I try to keep tads, fish, snails from being sucked in.

 

[ralphjramirez]

I used a combination of fencing, (plastic) and a wire trash bucket to cover my wide open 3 inch pvc pipe pulling water for the pump. It takes a few months before it clogs up enough to lower the water flow. The sock might be too fine. My pump is external, but I try to keep tads, fish, snails from being sucked in.

Hello addy1, thank you for your suggestion. I am sure you are right because what is clogging is not the sock but the filter within the pump, the sock is dirty but not clogged. I have some filtering material from my previous in-pond filter that I can use. I have been having problems with my pump re-starting after pulling it from the pond for cleaning so I am still going to replace it. Hopefully with the additional filtering material and a smaller pump I can get a much longer run time before cleaning is necessary. I sure hope so because this pond is becoming very frustrating.

Thanks again. By the way, I would like to see photos of your finished pond, looks like it must be a wonderful view from your patio?

Regards...........Ralph