water change

[stroppy]

sorry for bumping this old thread, but Im curious why we should do waterchanges at all? Assuming you have a properly sized and working filter and enough plants, what is it thats building up that would require water changes?

Id rather it be something you can actually measure and then decide to do a change or not, considering my pond is 50.000L and well water is unsuitable, changing just 5% every week would be costing me a pretty penny.

edit: just found this: "Avoid Changing Koi Pond Water if You Can"
In summary emptying a pond (even partially might be a bad idea).

http://www.pond-doctor.co.uk/longpartialwaterchange.html

i think what he is saying is dont change all of the water ... further down he says about doing partial water changes ..you can add things so you can use well water most on here do

 

[koidaddy]

Talk about water changes I forgot to turn off the water and remove the hose.
It was in the pond over 12 hours.

I think most of us have had that happen. I lost all mine once to that mistake.

I lost 30 fish that way once.

I watched the you tube clips on the "How to grow large koi" thread and he says he nevers does a water change, he just has a drip system in the waterfall 24/7. He just flushes his filter to eleminate waste. At least thats what I understood.
I have never done a water change and had had two successful spawning seasons. Just a 10 min top off once a week.(about an inch)

 

[DrDave]

Over time, you can get a build up of solids. A TDS meter can be used to measure these.

DoDad is the expert on this subject, maybe he will help out on acceptable levels for koi.
I tested mine a few minutes ago and it was 362.

My Koi spawned all day yeaterday, so mine might be elevated. I now worry about water changes for fear of losing eggs or fry.

 

[vertigo72]

Hmmm... but why would you want a low TDS? We are adding all kinds of stuff to our water to increase our KH, GH and even salt levels. All of these are dissolved solids increasing your TDS reading. So whatever your TDS reads, you ought to subtract the things you do want in the water, and only then there might be measurement of dissolved solids that you dont want. Just wondering, like what of those would accumulate over time? Nitrates if you dont have (enough) plants? What else?

 

[addy1]

My tds in my pond is a lower reading then the tds straight from our well.

 

[koiguy1969]

Dechlorinator and stress coat are the same thing DR dave

just to clarify or correct this statement ...no, dechlorinator and stress coat arent really the same thing,,but stress coat is an ingredient in some dechorinators...replenishes the fishes stress coat and / or stimulates the fishes natural production of their stress coat!...(for those who dont know..the natural slimey film over their bodies that helps guard them from infection and parasites)

 

[sissy]

We do not empty a pond we just do small water changes and that article just says small water changes are good as long as you watch the temp of the water and quality of the water i could find nothing on the sight that said not to do water changes .They are talking about a total change of water is bad ,meaning a total emptying of the pond .I would never do that with koi unless there was a problem with the liner or some other major problem that requires emptying of pond .That you should avoid if possible but small water changes they say there are good for the pond as long as you are careful when you do it.They also say 20% change ,we here usually only do 10% water change

 

[CometKeith]

vertigo, I agree with your thinking. Water changes are not required if your tests are all good. It is the easiest way to reduce high ammonia if that is a problem. Last year I did constant water changes and it did not help me because my pond did not properly cycle because of excessive cleaning and feeding. This year I am doing no water changes and all the tests are perfect because I have learned to leave the pond and fish alone in the spring other than to pull out organic material that falls in.

 

[vertigo72]

Well, thats not what Im stating as fact, its what Im wondering. Either way, if you dont have a lot of plants, I suspect water changes are a must, if for no other reason as getting rid of nitrates. But there could be other reasons too, I just havent read them yet.

 

[koiguy1969]

pheromones build up in a closed system as our ponds are...waterchanges dilute these pheromones....pheromones play a role in the health and behavior of fish....mainly a build up of pheromones slow the growth of koi and goldfish...the old addage that fish grow in comparison to their enviroment is true, in the fact a smaller enviroment builds up the levels quicker. diluting the pheromone levels in a pond can greatly enhances the growth and uniformity of shape in fish. so not doing water changes can inhibit your fish from reaching their full potential.not to mention that it does replenish trace minerals, electrolites and such, wich further aid in healthy fish. water changes arent just about removing bads theyre also about replenishing goods.

 

[vertigo72]

Thanks for that. I googled "pheromones koi", and Im a believer now. Not only does it limit growth (I could live with that), it actually suppresses the fish immune system, by design. It seems its a way fish regulate their own "density"; too much fish in too little water, they kill each other by deactivating each others immune systems with those pheromones. Unfortunately even not too much fish in the same water for too long will have the same effect.

I dont have a highly stocked pond, but now Im convinced nonetheless I do need to change something. Rather than using my garden hose to water my plants with tapwater, Im gonna have to make something I can water my plants with pond water and automatically refill the pond with tap water.

 

[koiguy1969]

i am a real slow "search and peck typer" so i often dont elaborate on my postings. pheromones are a chemical communication between fish..just as colonizing insects use pheromones to communicate. an over abundance of pheromones can cause serious stress factors in fish, which is why their immune system can be greatly affected.
yeah...just cause theyre not dead doesnt mean theyre happy or truely healthy.

 

[UT_Bruce]

I'm not a fan of the weekly/biweekly water change. Every time you add new water, you are potentially introducing problems, imbalances etc. that require additional treatment and supplementation.

A balanced pond should rarely have a water change; if the bacteria counts are where they need to be to control algae/bottom solids/nitrates etc., filters are maintained, pumps are working, it's just not necessary. But that is my opinion.

We only recommend them at the start of spring and whenever there are major upsets.

IMO if people are having to do water changes every two weeks, they either have too many fish present, overfeeding, or not enough aeration/plants/surface area etc etc for bacteria to thrive. Or their filters are not doing what they want them to do.

 

[koiguy1969]

especially in a dedicated koi pond, water changes are a must for a healthy stock. diluting any toxins, DOCs and the kois own pheromones. especially if your feeding to grow them out fast and big! and most of us keep an "overstocked" pond. water changes dont just get rid of the bad , they help replenish the good, like electrolites, and trace minerals. my parameters are always ideal. yet i would not keep a pond without waterchanges.