Convert swimming pool to natural pool/pond

[sherry]

The quickest, and easiest that I see is to use the existing gazebo to your advantage. You can build on top of it. let the water fall off the pool side of it, into the planted area between the pool deck and gazebo. Allow to flow from there to the pool via a stream, with bridge over it to allow kids to run from one side to the other. There will be some work, and digging involved, but it's unavoidable, and as mentioned before, will have an awesome return on your investment. Once planted, and going, you will have a most beautiful aquascape. Please excuse my
very rough drawing over your drawing. I based upon your drawing, and the photograph.

View attachment 136046

Thank you for the nice picture. I totally agree the investment is worthy; I just want to find an easy way to implement. I was planning to build a bog on top of it, but GBBUDD reminded me that the base may not be able to support the heavy weight and suggested to dig into the base instead -- is that the "digging" work you suggested too? If it's building on top, I could manage to get some PT lumbers, build the frame, put in the PVC, and fill with gravel; otherwise I'll have to hire some contractors to break the concrete, and I don't know if the whole base need to be rebuilt.

 

[Bluerooster]

The only digging that I suggest is the flower bed, between the gazebo, and the pool deck. (to form catch basin) If the gazebo has concrete floor, I would assume that the sides, and steps are also of masonry construction. The total dead load on the gazebo floor would be about 25lb per square foot after construction of bog on top. As to the construction of the gazebo, I'm only guessing how it was built based upon the location, and seismic zone, and assuming it was permitted, and inspected when built. Which leads me to another question; Where is the existing pump and filter located, in relationship to the gazebo?

 

[sherry]

The only digging that I suggest is the flower bed, between the gazebo, and the pool deck. (to form catch basin) If the gazebo has concrete floor, I would assume that the sides, and steps are also of masonry construction. The total dead load on the gazebo floor would be about 25lb per square foot after construction of bog on top. As to the construction of the gazebo, I'm only guessing how it was built based upon the location, and seismic zone, and assuming it was permitted, and inspected when built. Which leads me to another question; Where is the existing pump and filter located, in relationship to the gazebo?

Thank you. I would then be more confident about building it by myself.
The pump and filter are located here:

So I guess there are some tubes/wires on this side underground.

 

[GBBUDD]

Exactly what i drew the first go around, but i had a stream coming down from the upper area down tot he pool

 

[Bluerooster]

There will be a bit more digging, to run plumbing from the existing pump/filter, to the bog. Unless you want to just lay it on top of the ground. (not advisable) A trench just outside the pool deck to run a pipe from pump to bog. No need for extra pumps, what you have should be sufficient. With a couple of valves you can adjust the flow between the bog, and existing return jets, to get plenty of circulation. And using the existing pump/filter/backwash valve, you can bypass the sand filter, and leave it hooked up. Only use it for vacuuming.

 

[Pharian]

Late to this party, but I'd just like to say that is the most amazing template to build a swimming pond into. I am fabulously jealous.

If your partner is against the idea, show them this video... we all have to have dreams.

 

[GBBUDD]

if the gazebo is full of dirt it will support the bog but i would then imagine the stair and base walls are holding back the soils . NEED MORE INFO

 

[sherry]

Thanks to everyone who helped and inspired me. It's been a year, and now I'm coming back and trying to restart this project. My questions are:

1. Can I re-use the existing pump for the swimming pool, but change the outlet jet so that water return to the bog filter instead of the pool. The pump we have is Sta-Rite IntelliPro Variable Speed pump.
2. If 1 is possible, how to change the outlet jet so that water returns to the bog filter? There is a long distance (>40ft) between the pump and the bog filter. I am a newbie and would appreciate any instructions.
3. If 1 is not recommended, what pump would you recommend considering the pool has 25000~30000 gallons of water.
4. I'm attaching the photos of the gazebo base. Does it seem ok to be used as the base of the bog filter?
5. The bog filter size (30% of the pool) would be around 8x18ft. I'm considering two options: construct a concrete bog filter on the gazebo base (so no liner would be needed), or stacking up 4x4 lumbers or 8x8x16 concrete blocks and then apply liner inside. Which option seems better?

 

[brokensword]

Thanks to everyone who helped and inspired me. It's been a year, and now I'm coming back and trying to restart this project. My questions are:

1. Can I re-use the existing pump for the swimming pool, but change the outlet jet so that water return to the bog filter instead of the pool. The pump we have is Sta-Rite IntelliPro Variable Speed pump.
2. If 1 is possible, how to change the outlet jet so that water returns to the bog filter? There is a long distance (>40ft) between the pump and the bog filter. I am a newbie and would appreciate any instructions.
3. If 1 is not recommended, what pump would you recommend considering the pool has 25000~30000 gallons of water.
4. I'm attaching the photos of the gazebo base. Does it seem ok to be used as the base of the bog filter?
5. The bog filter size (30% of the pool) would be around 8x18ft. I'm considering two options: construct a concrete bog filter on the gazebo base (so no liner would be needed), or stacking up 4x4 lumbers or 8x8x16 concrete blocks and then apply liner inside. Which option seems better?
View attachment 147219View attachment 147220

nice ta see ya again, sherry!

So, I'd nix using the pool pump as they're not designed to be on 24/7 whereas pond pumps are. A lot of folks use Laguna pumps. I use Danner. Whatever you get, I'd advise making it 2 pumps and not one. So, with a larger pond, you should be able to get away with (2) at 12K gallons/hr. This gives you redundancy in case one craps out on you.

You'd buy flex pvc hose in the size of your pump outlet (depends on brand) and attach to pump then route to your bog manifold assy. I'm assuming you've searched here and have learned what bog filtration is all about. If not, do a search and read up; easy to understand, but there's details you should know about too.

Were it my bog/concrete base; I'd use 6x6s stacked, with iron rods going through from top to bottom, to tie all the layers of lumber together. Too, you want to overlap each corner so that's tied too. That is, you don't have all your ends on one side facing out, you alternate every row. At the corner, I'd also drive an iron rod for each wall, each corner, to again make this unable to bow/flex/spread/split. You'll need a liner; EPDM or HDRPE. I'd use underlayment with only the EPDM; the HDRPE won't need it.

The concrete version will be more costly, for sure and if you go this route, you'll have to tie the blocks together with both wire between layers as well as filling in the holes (with rerod inserted to the bottom) with concrete. I'd go wood as easier and less dinero.


I'm assuimg you're going minmal here; 12" of pea gravel with the bog walls 6" higher. If you want to have stuff like vaults, cleanouts, snorkels, ability to clean out the bog, you'll need deeper and the cost will go up a bit. Depends on your ultimate design choice; there's more than a few.

Btw, as an added bonus re your pump+hose output; if you get an adaptor that is twice the size of your pump outlet, put it ON your pump outlet, add a 'wye' piece next, then reduce down each of the 'wye' arms to the original pump output size, you'll actually get greater function than if you didn't. This advice comes from a pond professional. Now, doing this, you'll actually get 2 leads from each pump, giving you many options. Such as; one lead to a waterfall, one to a bog, and if you have 2 pumps, have the other two leads go to another waterfall/fountain/water feature and the other go ALSO to the bog. Many options. Realize, EACH lead from your pump will need a ball valve so you can control how much water goes where, to suit your taste. These valves will be over water, near your feature, be it waterfall or bog filter inlet.

I don't know of any easy way to make your jets do anything for you; if someone has retrofitted such on the forum, I hope they chime in, but to me, seems a lot easier to just do as I outlined above. Much of what I proposed would still need to be attained anyhow.

 

[sherry]

nice ta see ya again, sherry!

So, I'd nix using the pool pump as they're not designed to be on 24/7 whereas pond pumps are. A lot of folks use Laguna pumps. I use Danner. Whatever you get, I'd advise making it 2 pumps and not one. So, with a larger pond, you should be able to get away with (2) at 12K gallons/hr. This gives you redundancy in case one craps out on you.

You'd buy flex pvc hose in the size of your pump outlet (depends on brand) and attach to pump then route to your bog manifold assy. I'm assuming you've searched here and have learned what bog filtration is all about. If not, do a search and read up; easy to understand, but there's details you should know about too.

Were it my bog/concrete base; I'd use 6x6s stacked, with iron rods going through from top to bottom, to tie all the layers of lumber together. Too, you want to overlap each corner so that's tied too. That is, you don't have all your ends on one side facing out, you alternate every row. At the corner, I'd also drive an iron rod for each wall, each corner, to again make this unable to bow/flex/spread/split. You'll need a liner; EPDM or HDRPE. I'd use underlayment with only the EPDM; the HDRPE won't need it.

The concrete version will be more costly, for sure and if you go this route, you'll have to tie the blocks together with both wire between layers as well as filling in the holes (with rerod inserted to the bottom) with concrete. I'd go wood as easier and less dinero.


I'm assuimg you're going minmal here; 12" of pea gravel with the bog walls 6" higher. If you want to have stuff like vaults, cleanouts, snorkels, ability to clean out the bog, you'll need deeper and the cost will go up a bit. Depends on your ultimate design choice; there's more than a few.

Btw, as an added bonus re your pump+hose output; if you get an adaptor that is twice the size of your pump outlet, put it ON your pump outlet, add a 'wye' piece next, then reduce down each of the 'wye' arms to the original pump output size, you'll actually get greater function than if you didn't. This advice comes from a pond professional. Now, doing this, you'll actually get 2 leads from each pump, giving you many options. Such as; one lead to a waterfall, one to a bog, and if you have 2 pumps, have the other two leads go to another waterfall/fountain/water feature and the other go ALSO to the bog. Many options. Realize, EACH lead from your pump will need a ball valve so you can control how much water goes where, to suit your taste. These valves will be over water, near your feature, be it waterfall or bog filter inlet.

I don't know of any easy way to make your jets do anything for you; if someone has retrofitted such on the forum, I hope they chime in, but to me, seems a lot easier to just do as I outlined above. Much of what I proposed would still need to be attained anyhow.

Thank you! Lots of things happened in the last year and I almost thought about moving, but glad that I finally got to stay and come back to this project.

Thank you for your detailed instructions. I have some more questions:
1. For the pump, it seems 12K GPH pump is a bit hard to find. I found some here: https://www.pondusa.com/product/tsurumi-12pn-pond-waterfall-pump/ Not sure if this is ok for my purpose. This one is much more expensive for reasons I don't know: https://www.pondusa.com/product/easy-pro-tb12000-waterfall-pump/ The power consumption is typically 2kW per hour, that (with 2 pumps) adds up to ~100kW per day. Not a small number. Does it have to be on 24/7?
2. It's silly, but just wondering anyone by chance has a video that shows how to stack up the lumbers with iron rods? I've only made raised bed so far
3. Any recommended website to buy EPDM or HDRPE? HDRPE can be directly placed on the concrete base?

 

[brokensword]

Thank you! Lots of things happened in the last year and I almost thought about moving, but glad that I finally got to stay and come back to this project.

Thank you for your detailed instructions. I have some more questions:
1. For the pump, it seems 12K GPH pump is a bit hard to find. I found some here: https://www.pondusa.com/product/tsurumi-12pn-pond-waterfall-pump/ Not sure if this is ok for my purpose. This one is much more expensive for reasons I don't know: https://www.pondusa.com/product/easy-pro-tb12000-waterfall-pump/ The power consumption is typically 2kW per hour, that (with 2 pumps) adds up to ~100kW per day. Not a small number. Does it have to be on 24/7?
2. It's silly, but just wondering anyone by chance has a video that shows how to stack up the lumbers with iron rods? I've only made raised bed so far
3. Any recommended website to buy EPDM or HDRPE? HDRPE can be directly placed on the concrete base?

You're welcome!

I was more or less just saying to get multiple pumps and not one large one that would cover your whole pond at 25K gallons. You can do three or whatever, for redundancy. For my pond at 7k gallons, I have (2) 4K pumps with the same setup I described above.

Yes, you should be thinking 24/7 as your bacterilogical filtration needs to keep constant to do it's thing. I believe many have said the Laguna are more energy efficient. Having a pond your size is going to be more, obviously, than one my size. Comes with the territory.

Below, a pic of what I was describing and you'd have every layer bolted to the next or drive a rod down through all layers of wood to unite them. I'd put a rod every 2' minimally, 1/2" rerod. At each corner, I'd put one on each side of the corner, about 12" off the end. Since you're using pea stone, it will push on the walls but not like water wood and most of the load should act vertically. I may be advising overkill, but I like to be safe.

I got my liner, HDRPE, at BTL liners; 45'x40', 40 mil and delivered from the PNW to Michigan for $1200 back in 2019.

 

[GBBUDD]

The gazebo base is more than likely a 4" concrete pad and will hold just about anything you throw at it Now occasionally pool companies will opt for less concrete thickness and go with a higher strength yes thinner pour DIG ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE EDGING AT SEE WHAT YOU HAVE.

The pool pump is not designed to run 24/7 it is more of an 8 hour run time. if you use it you'll get the last bit of life from it so why not but i would leave what ever filter system you had up and running. in addition to making a bog. you have a great deal of water and for 30,000 gallons and a heavily used swim pond the recommended size of a bog is up to 50% of the pool surface area. I strong advise watching the multitude of videos that Modern design aquascaping has he just about covers it all and you will understand in simple terms the entire idea . I would go with a second pump hidden behind the bog. but you'll want to keep the pump as close to the water level as possible. External pumps are great at pushing pater not pulling. And in my book submersible pumps are Not ideal for a swim pond even if they are in a pump vault you still have electrical power in the water. With externals you do not. Yes there are gfi's but i'd rather not rely on it and prefer not having the electric in the water . they do go bad over time, and are recommended be replace every so often.

So if your set of the bog on the gazebo i would go with concrete block cheap easy and does not rot . you can easily pin the wall into the deck but i would still go with a liner inside of the block frame for ease and reliable. To skim coat the walls with fiberglass, water proof paint or plaster is not what i would recommend doing for the beginner and then throw 10's of thousands pounds of stone into the area hoping there's no leak. and that you have a bod that will last for decades.

In the drawing the tan is the bog inside the new cinderblock walls with rebar pins.
The rubber is the black line. ALL ONE PIECE TO THE POOL.
THE BLUE THICK LINE WOULD BE LIKE A BLUE STONE CAP


Where you have a very formal pool I would use a lot of stacked stone walls as well as some boulders. Build the concrete bog wall say two feet tall for a peastone bog . have the rubber epdm/ "my choice" be one piece where it is in the new bog area and is draped over the top of the new concrete wall down to a shelf or have two shelves one being from the gazebo deck and the other the pool deck. run the liner down the pool deck and have it drape into the pool this way any water from the spill ways falls or stream is on a large waterproof area and can only drain into the pool . The height youll have will be fantastic for a dramatic waterfall but the higher it gets the more it drops the more the splash will shoot out and will need a wider catch area or measures to stop it from getting outside the liner. That is not all that hard to do just have the falls in the shape of a U WITH THE FALLS BEING AT THE BOOTOM OF THE U AND THE SIDES protruding outward to catch the splash that wants to go out to the sides.

I would also place the external pump off to the right side of the gazebo behind it's own staked slate wall on the opposite side of the stairs. The idea of a second pump will save a lot of energy bill as pushing from close to the house all the way down to the bog is a good distance and back pressure. it will save you from . Digging out the yard running a new line all the way from the pump to the gazebo or if your able to find the return line outside the pool decking tapping into that line will not give you enough size and flow as they are usually only 1 1/2" or 2" lines good for only 4000 gph you'll want a minimum of 4000. A new pump you'll be able to split the power so the bog bhas a good flow but you can add other gph just to the waterfall

ou can have multiple spill ways if you so liked if you want a sheet flow and formal or

 

[sherry]

Thank you GBBUDD for the help!

Do you have any recommendation as to which pump I could buy for a 30000 gallon pool?
I'm a bit confused about the aquascaping videos which talk about snorkels centipede and aqua blocks. Do I have to use them, or PVC and pea gravel would be enough?
For the concrete block, it seems difficult for me to DIY. I'll talk to some pool construction company and see if they can do it for me.
Thank you for the nice picture illustration. What is the rebar pin at the bottom of the bog? To pin the walls on the gazebo base? If it's a concrete bog, why it's still recommended to line with epdm in stead of directly adding water?

The gazebo base is more than likely a 4" concrete pad and will hold just about anything you throw at it Now occasionally pool companies will opt for less concrete thickness and go with a higher strength yes thinner pour DIG ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE EDGING AT SEE WHAT YOU HAVE.

The pool pump is not designed to run 24/7 it is more of an 8 hour run time. if you use it you'll get the last bit of life from it so why not but i would leave what ever filter system you had up and running. in addition to making a bog. you have a great deal of water and for 30,000 gallons and a heavily used swim pond the recommended size of a bog is up to 50% of the pool surface area. I strong advise watching the multitude of videos that Modern design aquascaping has he just about covers it all and you will understand in simple terms the entire idea . I would go with a second pump hidden behind the bog. but you'll want to keep the pump as close to the water level as possible. External pumps are great at pushing pater not pulling. And in my book submersible pumps are Not ideal for a swim pond even if they are in a pump vault you still have electrical power in the water. With externals you do not. Yes there are gfi's but i'd rather not rely on it and prefer not having the electric in the water . they do go bad over time, and are recommended be replace every so often.

So if your set of the bog on the gazebo i would go with concrete block cheap easy and does not rot . you can easily pin the wall into the deck but i would still go with a liner inside of the block frame for ease and reliable. To skim coat the walls with fiberglass, water proof paint or plaster is not what i would recommend doing for the beginner and then throw 10's of thousands pounds of stone into the area hoping there's no leak. and that you have a bod that will last for decades.

In the drawing the tan is the bog inside the new cinderblock walls with rebar pins.
The rubber is the black line. ALL ONE PIECE TO THE POOL.
THE BLUE THICK LINE WOULD BE LIKE A BLUE STONE CAP


Where you have a very formal pool I would use a lot of stacked stone walls as well as some boulders. Build the concrete bog wall say two feet tall for a peastone bog . have the rubber epdm/ "my choice" be one piece where it is in the new bog area and is draped over the top of the new concrete wall down to a shelf or have two shelves one being from the gazebo deck and the other the pool deck. run the liner down the pool deck and have it drape into the pool this way any water from the spill ways falls or stream is on a large waterproof area and can only drain into the pool . The height youll have will be fantastic for a dramatic waterfall but the higher it gets the more it drops the more the splash will shoot out and will need a wider catch area or measures to stop it from getting outside the liner. That is not all that hard to do just have the falls in the shape of a U WITH THE FALLS BEING AT THE BOOTOM OF THE U AND THE SIDES protruding outward to catch the splash that wants to go out to the sides.

I would also place the external pump off to the right side of the gazebo behind it's own staked slate wall on the opposite side of the stairs. The idea of a second pump will save a lot of energy bill as pushing from close to the house all the way down to the bog is a good distance and back pressure. it will save you from . Digging out the yard running a new line all the way from the pump to the gazebo or if your able to find the return line outside the pool decking tapping into that line will not give you enough size and flow as they are usually only 1 1/2" or 2" lines good for only 4000 gph you'll want a minimum of 4000. A new pump you'll be able to split the power so the bog bhas a good flow but you can add other gph just to the waterfall View attachment 147227

ou can have multiple spill ways if you so liked if you want a sheet flow and formal or

 

[GBBUDD]

Aquablocks are not a must no. But for a swim pond the more efficient the bog the better off you'll be.
With people swimming in the pond it adds a lot to the bio load for the bog .

 

[GBBUDD]

Any pump that has a Baldor motor should be a quality pump they have the market cornered.

I have performance plus and it is quiet and has been running almost 24/7 with the exception oof a couple winters . I would look at a 230 Amp motor for less power consumption without loosing gph . But in California I'm sure like here in ct the bill won't be friendly